Where are the plot holes?

I have not read the entire thread, but for myself (and maybe this isn't so much a plot hole as it is missing information), where did the First Order come from? I'm having a hard time with the overarching story of this trilogy. I realize and understand the OT just drops us in as a viewer and lets the story unfold, as I respect that this Trilogy is trying to do the same thing. I don't fault it for that, but I do feel that we, as the audience, should have been given something in these first two movies to explain where the first order came from and what their intentions/goals are. This ties directly into Snoke as well. What a hollow character (at least thus far), and I really don't feel one way or the other about his character's death, because we have no clue who he is. I realize that all of this will probably be retcon'd in a novel one day, and that's fine. My only complaint about all this is that the character's death would've been more impactful if he had been explained. I think a scene with Snoke and the military industrial complex that is funding this never-ending conflict would've been a nice touch, a tip of the cap to the imperial roundtable scene in ANH. If I had this one scene to connect the Aftermath books, the Bloodline novel and the ST together, I think I'd be feeling better about the movie.

I don't feel we should give the impression that as fans, we're ok with just letting Disney/Lucasfilm throw a new coat of paint on everything every 30 years and just have Rebels vs. Stormtroopers again without any context to the conflict itself. That is the very definition of a cheap cash grab, and despite the many beautiful things that The Last Jedi does, there is a big cloud hanging over this Trilogy that cannot be ignored at this point: why are the Wars in the Stars happening again?

 

I found a plot hole in my backyard today. Someone had dug a hole and thrown a book in it. Gettit?

 

Apparently, it took a day or half a day or so. In any case, a bit longer than the Da'qar evacuation scene at the start of TLJ. Movies always collapse time and space. So technically, the space battle that took place at the start of TLJ was already taking place in TFA.

As for your first question about R2: R2 can climb stairs, we have seen it in the AOTC. He does so by alternating his middle 'leg' and his left and right legs.

As for the Hologram. The only difference is that the camera zooms in on the hologram and that its in high definition. The raw footage is still there.

 

There are literally too many such incidents throughout the SW trilogy like this that occur to write about. I think if you're stuck on this and cannot accept the explanations put to you, then you're just always going to dislike the film and it's best to move on.

Really? Can't you just google it? Okay one that springs to mind is in Back to the Future. Neither of Marty's parents remember him from the past - the guy his mum fancied and got his parents together (and inspired his father's career). They don't realise that he looks exactly the same as their son. Doesn't make sense. Does it matter? Nah, the film is a great ride. But that is a plot hole.

Could it be explained away? Well, sure anything could be I guess. But I don't see anything to that extent in TLJ.

 

There was probably a Force field just like the way ships enter and leave other ships. Further in ANH there are stormtroopers standing outside, in space when the falcon enters the deathstar.

 

Its the imperial remnant that under their Supreme Leader Snoke - the man who seduced Kylo- tries to restore The First Order (i.e. The Empire) as the dominant force in the galaxy and topple the republic. That's really all we know and all the audience needs to now to understand the story of our protagonists. The motivations of the first order are reiterated in the Hux' speech before he orders the starkiller attack. The context for the conflict is still the same, the only difference now is that the first order is fuelled by vengeance and not so much 'control' as the empire was.

As for Snoke. We know his character, his function and his relationship with Kylo. He is there only to give shape to Kylo's inverted hero's journey. He's an obstacle that Kylo needs to overcome in order to become the hero/villain he is meant to be.

 

I don’t recall ever saying I disliked the movie. I think it’s perfectly fine. I thought this thread was about plot-holes, not the quality of the film.

Yeah, that’s pretty much my point. You (and others) seem to have a prejudicially precise definition of that term. One that practically eliminates it from being applicable at all anywhere. There’s apparently no such thing as a plot-hole, since it’s neigh impossible to meet your rather lofty personal qualifiers for its validity. Make sense?

 

It's just not a fair comparison. The original movies can stand on their own without the Prequels or the Sequels. We did get the backstory in the crawl and in the Imperial Roundtable scene during ANH. You don't think we should've been given any information on screen about where the FO came from?

Honestly this feels like having a movie trilogy about WWI and then another one about WW2 without explaining any of the historical context for what led from one war to another. While I understand that much of that information is not as exciting as the actual images of the war itself, it's still crucial to understanding those chain of events. I'm not saying they needed to be in the movie, but why hide it from the novels, comics, etc. I just feel it was a cop-out.

 

Because the want to give the writers of the movies the freedom they need. They want to hide it for now, it remains a mystery just as the motivations of the Empire and Rebellion in a New Hope, and similarly the status of the emperor and the relation between the republic and the rebellion.

 

You have not told us what the 'plot' is yet in TLJ.

You keep dodging that question.

 

If JJ doesn’t have it in the movie it means nothing. Snoke was the one that set it up and maintained it. He is dead. Kylo may not know how to use that force power. It’s clear that not all force powers are used. The Emperor even tells Anakin that. The Jedi knew of Force powers they believed where “unnatural”. My guess is there are force powers that take great mastery to use as they could kill you. Kylo even says this to Rey when he is wondering how they are talking. He tells Rey making the connection would kill her. This one line also setup Luke becoming one with the Force after his force projection.

If we really look at the entire saga the force and how it works is not fully explained. Luke was exhausted after trying to pull the x-wing from the swamp yet Yoda did it without breaking a sweat. The Jedi in the PT seem to be very reluctant to use the force unless absolutely necessary, Anakin telling Padme that Ben would be very upset seeing him use the force on the piece of fruit. This to me shows the Jedi respect the force and understand it is a great benefit and maybe a great danger in over using it. The Jedi clearly don’t use the force the way Luke uses it. Maybe Luke learned all sorts of new Force powers while on his journey. He also learned that using certain powers could kill him. The Jedi in the PT didn’t fully use the force but maybe past Jedi did. These past Jedi wrote books that were archived in the Jedi temple but not everyone had access to them. Luke got access because he read the actual text. The Jedi in the PT seem to be a lot weaker than Luke was and perhaps because there was piece for so long the Force powers taught was reduced in order to ensure Jedi didn’t over use it and die.

 

You are correct. It's a different angle. Just watched ANH last night, so I'm certain.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2017 ---

Star Wars is ABSOLUTELY full of plot holes in every episode.

 

I'm asking for 3-4 minute scene with Snoke and the military industrial complex that is funding this conflict. Is that really so much to ask for?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2017 ---

I do not. I want them to pick something over nothing. The Empire's motivations are clear in ANH. The Imperial Roundtable scene lays out a quick snapshot of the galaxy, and also communicates the Empire's plan for the ANH movie.

 

Once the rest of the skimmers retreated and it was just Rose and Finn, the fact that they survive the rest of the way is impossible to explain, considering they were staring down a huge number of fully loaded walkers and some ground troops who seem to have conveniently disappeared at some point. The walkers had no trouble shooting down the other skimmers. It's like they just decided to let things play out with Finn and Rose. How Finn got so close to the big gun is impossible to explain. How they both survived Rose broadsiding him in these rickity junkships is impossible to explain. How they could have their moment of love in clear view of all the Imperial soldiers and weapons after the order to kill all the resistance fighters is impossible to explain- they were sitting ducks. But most of all, how Finn was able to load Rose up on a sled and slowly drag that back from the enemy front line (remember where they had to be when they crashed) without getting shot, all the way to the base- TOTES IMPOSSIBLE. And I still have to wonder, where did those stormtroopers on the ground go?

 

Why would that be relevant for Kylo or Rey?

 

I’ll have to watch the movie again but I don’t think that’s what Yoda says. I think he says there is nothing else she needs in there.

 

Because Rey had already taken the books from the tree...