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Which Force Ghost will appear, and to whom ?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by daRinze, Dec 31, 2018.

?

Which ghost will appear, and to whom ?

  1. ghost Yoda to Kylo Ren

    2.0%
  2. ghost Anakin to Kylo Ren

    42.0%
  3. ghost Luke to Kylo Ren

    64.0%
  4. ghost Yoda to Rey

    12.0%
  5. ghost Anakin to Rey

    8.0%
  6. ghost Luke to Rey

    68.0%
  7. another ghost (which one ?)

    12.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    ObiWan or Ben ?

    I agree, this is why I am skeptical about "Luke haunting Kylo" because this wouldn't be a "light side" thing.

    Agreed.

    The one and only is Hayden, whatever one thinks about the "Sebastian Shaw replacement" I regret as much as you (why was Shaw replaced by Christensen, and not Guiness by McGregor ? but here is not the place to debate this).
    In my mind, I would love a silent appearance from Anakin to Kylo: first, Christensen beautiful face (I mean, unscarified) appears to Kylo during a dream, then that face slowly turns in the devastated burnt face one sees on the surgery table in ep3, then Vader's mask (and breathe) come in, then again Christensen light face slowly saying "no" with his head.
    And Kylo wakes up sweaty - like Anakin when he had his terrible dreams with Padme.



    So far, nobody voted "Yoda appears to Kylo". :) It would be so epic to see the little green kicking Kylo Ren with his gimer stick :D :D
     
    #21 daRinze, Jan 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  2. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    I see people say Luke to Rey is a given. But I disagree. Luke to Kylo is a given. "See you around, kid".

    Hayden Christensen.

    ... and this too.

    "Ahhh, young Solo, ruling well as Supreme Leader you do not." xD
     
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  3. Steven Lewis

    Steven Lewis Clone Commander

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    I'm hoping we will see Luke appear and talk to someone, not really concerned whom, but then for either form or voice of Anakin to appear and talk with Luke.
     
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  4. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    I'm trying to picture Kylo's reaction to little green glowy dwarf with crazy speech pattern appearing in his chambers... It eludes me.
     
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  5. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    Yoda appearing to Kylo would be hilarious. Thinking about the possibilities almost has me wanting it to happen.
     
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  6. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH !
    I wanted to put that in the picklist, you just make me remember I totally forgot it !!!! :rage: :rage: :rage:
    The confrontation aboard the DS between Luke and Anakin is wayyyyyy too short. We need more, much more, we need for example Anakin speaking about Padme to Luke.
     
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  7. Steven Lewis

    Steven Lewis Clone Commander

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    Exactly - the whole legacy angle is completed wasted IMO. TFA had Kylo talking to Vader's helmet was brilliant, though the force back with Rey now seems pointless. TLJ had.....well to be fair I've not watched it that much to be honest.
     
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  8. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    While I EXPECT Luke to appear to either Rey or Kylo (or BOTH) I think that Kylo NEEDS to hear from Anakin...I don't expect the latter to happen, but I feel like it needs to...for Kylo's sake.
     
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  9. JediJurist

    JediJurist Rebelscum

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    Force Ghosts are tricky because we really don't have many rules for them (yet).
    A set of rules would be a nice thing to establish a bit more in IX.

    So far, we know:
    (1) The ghosts have only appeared to someone who knew the ghost as a person in real life.
    (2) The ghosts have been deceased Jedi.
    (3) The ghosts have appeared only to Jedi (or Jedi in training).
    (4) The ghosts' appearances were largely those at the age of death or how the observer last saw the ghost (other than Anakin in the revamped ROTJ).*
    (5) It seems as though the ghosts only appear to the viewer. For example, it seems as though only Luke noticed the ghosts at the end of ROTJ.
    (6) Any others?

    * As to (4), the change from Shaw to Hayden in the new editions messes up the rules for ghost appearances considerably. Before the change, all the ghosts we had seen appeared as they looked when they were last observed in real life by the observer of them (albeit Shaw was without his Vader wounds). Now, with Hayden's shoe-horned appearance, Luke was seeing the appearance of someone he had never met before as well as an appearance of Anakin well before his death. It was obviously done for fan service but invites a number of questions (Why not younger a Obi-Wan or Yoda? Is Force Ghost Anakin appearing in his last Jedi appearance? Did Luke even recognize young Anakin ghost? Perhaps Luke saw a picture of young Anakin before he turned? If Force Ghosts appear only as they last did when they were last seen as a Jedi, did Vader not truly redeem himself before dying?)

    It seems that the best rule to maintain would be for ghosts to only appear to those that knew the ghost in real life before their death. Otherwise, why hasn't some long dead Jedi appeared out of the blue to any of our heroes in Star Wars? Also, this means that we likely will only be getting Force Ghost Luke in episode IX.
     
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  10. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    I would add it seems to me that ghosts appear mainly in desperate situations. Ben appeared to Luke the moment he was frightened just before shootig the DS, Ben reappared when Luke fainted on Hoth, Ben came back again when Luke was depressive on Dagobah, and in TLJ, ghost Yoda appears when Luke is needing some help.
    Only the final appearance in RotJ is not a desperate moment.

    Because there must have been a training to do that?
    Qui Gon found the way, but did not succeeded in materialize himself in ghost for (if I am correct).
    He teached the way to Yoda, who got actual training (see the 3 last episodes of TCW) then passed it to Obi Wan (end of episode 3).
    But once more ghost Anakin undermines this : how Vader who was a Sith Lord could have got this knowledge ?


    Well for every rule... there is a counter-example :)
    Yes, force ghost are tricky ;)
     
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  11. Penumbra

    Penumbra Rebelscum

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    My gut feel is that we'll see Luke and Obi-Wan.

    Rey is touted as the Last Jedi, but by old school definitions is no Jedi yet. For that to occur, she needs training. I believe we'll see a heavy presence from Luke as a force ghost in the first quarter of the film training Rey. In TLJ Yoda advised Luke to pass on what he had learnt, and save for 3 short, sweet lessons he hasn't really done that. Yoda's wish can be fulfilled still if Luke trains Rey as a force ghost.

    By virtue of the fact we hear Obi-Wan whisper "these are the first steps" in Rey's vision from TFA, I suspect (and hope) that Obi-Wan will also play a part in her training.

    Finally, someone said above that Luke appearing as a force ghost to Kylo - love that idea.
     
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  12. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    I would love that, but the big problem is ghost Ben is officially Alec Guiness. It's hard to retcon that with McGregor.
    Or they'll need to hire a physical lookalike (we all know since Rebels they've already found a voice lookalike).
     
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  13. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    I believe the way Lucas explained changing the Anakin force ghost to Haden had to do with something along the lines of anakin appearing as the last manifestation of when he was
    They could use Ewan and age him digitally making him resemble Alec enough that it would be passable if they wanted to use an Obi Wan force ghost and keep the continuity
     
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  14. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    I have considered this same list in my mind as well, HOWEVER #2 could stand to be debated;

    We'll all agree that "Force Ghosts" are a projection of a deceased Jedi to a seemingly specific recipient of the said projection (as in the end of ROTJ), BUT as a projection, we also saw Luke project himself to Crait...and he wasn't dead...and everyone could see him, so I find it problematic that they have to be dead in order to project, at which time the "Ghost" in FG seems to only be a matter of whether they're dead or not...I know, semantics.

    The only reason I bring that up, is because when I realized that Luke was in fact only projecting himself to Crait, the "Rules of Force Ghost" somewhat fell to pieces at my feet at that moment.

    Young Anakin replacing Sebastian at the end of ROTJ has ALWAYS been problematic to me because like you point out; How would Luke even know who Hayden was?? It's not like there was a family photo album being passed around (that we know of), and I'd personally be like; "Who the hell is THAT dude??".

    I suppose, that because WE don't know how the Force "feels" to a Jedi, that perhaps it could be explained away that Luke just knew whom Hayden was because he could feel the familiar presence that he felt when he sensed him as Vader only maybe without the darkness attached.

    I don't know...a lot of it generated a lot of questions, as there has never seemed to be any clearly cut rules presented...

    ..maybe there aren't any.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2019 ---
    Whoa....I never considered this.

    Luke has never seen Obi-Wan as a young(er) version in FG form...or in any form...that's a sudden realization...nobody has...that kind of ruins THAT idea.
     
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  15. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    for me, Luke on Crait was NOT a force ghost. We all know how a Force Ghost is materialized : a kind of spectral shape haloed by a whitish and luminous aura...
    Luke on Crait absolutely hasn't that shape and look. He looked real. So real I think 99% of the audience thought first this Luke was the real Luke, until Kylo's red blade pierces him, and everybody understand this Luke is in fact virtual.

    For me, Luke on Crait is a Force Peojection, no comparison possible with a Force Ghost.
    :my2cents:
     
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  16. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    (edit) "force projection" and not "force peojection", I hope everybody corrected.
     
  17. GotTheSilver

    GotTheSilver Rebel General

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    Force ghosts can interact with the physical world, as Yoda did in TLJ - hitting Luke with his cane and making lightning strike the tree.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2019 ---
    This has bugged me ever since Episode 3 came out! Anakin would not be able to appear as a force ghost immediately after he died! He does not have that knowledge!
     
  18. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Rebel Official

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    Luke and Anakin to Ren, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to Rey, Yoda to Finn.
     
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  19. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    I just had an epiphany, reading @GotTheSilver : and what if Force Ghost are due to the will of the person they appear to - and not the intention of the ghost itself ?
    I try to explain what I'm thinking about.
    - ANH : when Ben talks to Luke abord the XWing, it is not because Ben wanted it : it is because Luke needed it.
    - TESB : when Ben appears to Luke who is knocked-out in the snow, it is not because Ben wants to appear to Luke, no : it is because Luke is nearly in a coma state, and desperately needs help.
    - and so on...

    I mean : a force ghost does not appear because the deceased person wants it, a Force Ghost appears to a person who is in desperate emergency, and such ghost is, in fact, materialized by that person - and not by the deceased.
    - It can explain why Vader may appear as a ghost : because Luke wanted him, because Luke considered Anakin was a Jedi again, and so, was worthy to appear alongside ObiWan, and ObiWan should smile to him (when in fact, ObiWan died because of him) like an old pal
    - It may explain why the ghosts clearly appear to Luke, as Leia or Han do not see them on Endor
    - It's in line with the assertion "the deceased person must be known from the person the ghost appears to"

    A deceased person cannot have any will ; only a living person may have wills...
    - It was because Luke needed it that he made Ghost Ben talk to him abord the X-Wing.
    - It was because Luke had fainted on the snow on Hoth, and was in great danger, that he made Ghost Ben come again and talk to him.
    - It was because Luke needed explanation that he made Ghost Ben talk to him on Dagobah.





    Suddenly I get a seventh point to add to the list : so far, 7) Force Ghosts only appear to Luke Skywalker - or am I wrong ?
     
    #39 daRinze, Jan 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  20. LeeGonJin

    LeeGonJin Rebel Trooper

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    I had an extremely vivid dream last night about watching episode 9.

    Anakin appeared towards the end of a battle in a woodland area to which Luke says “father...”.

    It was very Euphoric and I woke up depressed as I know I’m setting myself up for disappointment.
     
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