SPOILER Who dies in EP 7?

Darth Maul's short lived appearance was part of many people's problem with the prequels. I think J.J is smart enough to not make the same mistakes again.

Obviously there will be certain baddies who don't carry over into the next two films (such as Constable Zuvio), but all three of the main villains, (Kylo, Phasma, Hux), should be staying around for this whole film. If any of them go, my money's on Hux.

 

I don't see how Maul was any less hollow than the other villains you mentioned. Aside from having a better physical design, he's almost a blank slate. The Clones Wars turned him into an interesting character, but his biggest asset in the PT is that he's a complete mystery. Given the chance for his character to be explored, I don't see any reason he would have turned out better than any of the other PT villains. He would have been written by the same guy that wrote those other villains, and by story necessity, he would have filled the same role that Dooku filled in Episodes 2 and 3.

The only reason anyone thinks Maul is a great character is precisely because he was killed off in the first movie.

 

That's the reason to not kill him in TPM. They should explored Maul in the others two episodes instead of create Dooku and Grievous.

 

I'm not sure I understand - are you saying you would have preferred if Lucas had gone on to make Maul a hollow, unpopular character in Ep 2 & 3, rather than killing him off in Ep 1?

Taking only Ep 1 into account (ignoring everything that came after the PT) what makes Maul a good character? What makes you think he would have been any better than Dooku? I understand that he looks better, but that's really it. In Maul's case, it was a good thing that he was killed. That's the only thing that saved people's opinions of him.

More does not automatically equal better. If Kylo Ren turns out to be a good character, and he gets killed in TFA, that might be the best thing that could happen to the character. Make him great and then get him out of there before that changes.

 

Quality over quantity!

 

So far the master has died in the first episode of each trilogy. If they wanted to keep it that way then Luke would die in this movie. But I doubt that'll happen.

 

No, I'm saying that if Maul wasn't killed in TPM they would have improve the character better for the next episodes. Maybe adding more lines and time for him.
In TPM he has the look (incredible) and his menacing double lightsaber, just that was enought to make of him a better character than Dooku and Grievous (characters that have much more lines than Maul).

 

Well based off of what we have Luke isn't the mentor, Han is. Just because Luke is the highest ranking Jedi in VII doesn't mean he has the mentor role. For example see Mace/Yoda in Episode I.

 

Makes sense. What I mean though is more about how direct the continuation is. Qui-Gon is Obi-Wan's master and Obi-Wan is Luke's master. At least in the first episode of each trilogy. So whoever Luke's apprentice is would carry on that tradition.

 

Unless there is a twist where Hux is really Luke's son undercover, I'd say it's General Hux going down. and Han...

 

But since Maul would have been written by PT era George Lucas, who is the same person that wrote and created all the other PT villains, there's no reason to believe that Maul would have been improved given more screen time. Having more lines and time didn't make Dooku or Grievous better.

And this is my point, the only reason people like Maul better was that he looked cooler, and never had a chance to get ruined.

You want more Maul because you imagine him to be better than the other two villains. But is there anything at all about the PT that turned out as well as you imagined it would be before seeing it?

If you get right down to it, the problem wasn't that Lucas killed Maul off too early. The problem was that the new villains didn't look nearly as cool as Maul, and they had too much to say, and too much screen time.

 

For the First Order, Hux goes down with the base. Kylo Ren is too complex a character - or so we are told - to be one-and-done. And Phasma looks too cool to kill off so quickly.

For the Resistance, Han will die. Almost certainly by the hand of Kylo Ren so that we end up hating the guy. Han will get his proper memorial, and Luke's late reveal will help offset the movie's somber end.

 

I just want one badass villain in this ST instead of 3 or 4 main weak villains like the PT. I got your point taht killing Maul early was a chance to not ruined the character but at the same time creating so many villains was a mistake too, GL didn't let you care about one, imagine 3 or 4.

 

Been hearing rumors that Lobot will die a heroic death. Not sure of the exact details, but some concept art suggests that Lobot will download himself into Luke's cyborg hand and will be re-booted into a new body in Episode VIII: The Search for Lobot.

Oh, and Han is dying too....have you seen him? He's SEVENTY-FIVE and keeps trying to kill himself. Falling doors and crashed planes= cry for help.

 

I hear you. I honestly don't think it would have mattered with regards to the PT, but I would absolutely agree that we're better off with one really good villain that three or four mediocre to terrible ones. That is an excellent point.

Having great villains helped make the OT the cultural phenomena that it was.

But I don't worry about them killing off Kylo Ren too early, even if he turns out to be a winner. Partially because I have faith in the next round of creators to introduce more interesting bad guys, and partially because they are promoting Kylo Ren so heavily right now, that I believe they're confident his story will deliver the goods - whether it's for one movie or three.

I also think that if he survives, he's likely a descendent of Darth Vader, and if that's true, the odds are he will experience some level of redemptive arc that will require Episodes 8 and 9 to have new villains anyway. If you're just going to have you're new villain be evil from start to finish, why make him a Skywalker/Solo?

We've already seen Kylo, Hux and Phasma for this movie. We know Snoke is lurking back there too. Benicio Del Toro is coming on board as a villain next round, and then there are the persistent rumors about the Knights of Ren (plural).

It would appear this trilogy has more than enough villains to keep our new heroes occupied. If killing off the main antagonist from TFA at the end of his very first movie serves the story, I'm all for it.

 

Why is this a spoiler? On topic Han dies...

 

Han and Hux will bite it. If done right it will be a bittersweet masterpiece ending to Han.

There is a reason why there were 3 villains in the PT each Maul, Dooku and Grievous were glimpses of what Vader would become. They were elements that Anakin would face but succumb to.

Maul- The fear and anger that would destroy who he loved the harder he fought the darker it became. Vader became like Maul a bound and subservient attack dog. Vader became that sort of fear incarnate evil thing.

Dooku- Elegant statesman, ruthless, impressive.

Grievous- Darth Vader is more machine than man.

All three are parts of Vader's complex whole. Sure you could give Maul a better arc or let his last longer but the foreshadowing among the villains faced tells you a lot about Anakin.

 

True, but it's more likely that screentime in AOTC and ROTS would have developed his character. The problem was that all the screentime for Dooku (and to an extent Grievous) was devoted to establishing who he is and what his motivations are. How much more interesting would it have been if, say, it was Darth Maul telling Obi-Wan: "Join me, and together we can destroy the Sith!".

When it was Dooku, the reaction was basically: "Er, who is this dude? Why is this significant? What is even happening here?"

 

That is a very different and wise analysis, first time that I read something like this. GL said this in an interview? Or that's your vision?

 

Thanks. My mind was just blown up like Alderan. Never heard that theory before.