Who do you think Snoke is talking about in the trailer

To me this makes far more sense than the idea that Luke is referring to the "raw" power of Ben Solo. I'd even take it that he is referring to the raw power of the the emperor. But not to Kylo/Ben. I just don't see it.

 

I think every line in the trailer not spoken by Rey is spoken to Rey. I think when Ren briefed his leader Snoke about Rey in TFA, there was an exchange that alluded to the possibility that while we as the audience did not know the identity of "the girl"--that Snoke and Ren did. I will never forget Snoke's words: "If what you say about the girl is true, bring her to me!"

Snoke is talking about raw power--Rey. Luke is talking about raw strength--after he witnessed it firsthand--Rey.

 

I logged in just to say this. EVERYTHING is about Rey; focused on Rey.

This trailer takes place in two realms: what we see being spoken, and what we see on screen. They aren't particularly linked, if at all.

We just think that Snoke is talking to/about Ben because his dialogue is juxtaposed with images of Kylo's training. But we don't actually see that dialogue take place. We also know that Rey is in front of Snoke at some point in time (IRL or just an illusion matters not). So to the above person saying it doesn't make sense he'd be talking to Rey, do you think he doesn't monologue or toy with her a bit before going straight to force rape?

Likewise, we think that (or are to believe that) Ben's pep-talk about killing your past was to himself. That is kind of odd if you ask me. A little to specific and too much exposition to be self-assurance, particularly in the split-second moment he has to push the button on not. In other words, he is before Rey at some point. Before he betrays her to Snoke, or before she goes willingly matters not. Kylo is pointedly telling her to kill her past, much like what he has had to do/is still doing, in order to become who she needs to be. For you deep undercover Kylo fans maybe he hopes she has the ability to take on Snoke. Otherwise he's just priming her for Snoke much like Vader primed Luke before taking him to Palps.

Oh, and I think Luke is talking about a young Rey as well (the power that scares him). Ben is too obvious a choice. TFA was about Rey; hell, it was named after her. This trailer clearly focuses on her latent powers. Perhaps she had something to do with the fall of the temple. I'm not sure if Kylo had defected prior to, during, or after her possible rage. Maybe he set her off; maybe he saw Snoke set her off. Maybe he left to Snoke in her stead in order to protect her. He clearly perked up when someone mentioned 'a girl' in TFA. In fact, I think EVERYONE knows Rey already. Luke, Snoke, Ben. We are seeing things from Rey's perspective. She's had her mind wiped or has self-blocked the events due to it being so traumatic.

 

What if Snoke's voice-over, is actually directed towards Luke?

Luke is the most predominant face on the Last Jedi poster, suggesting the film might be much more focused on Luke than we realise.

 

Something else that's contrary to the above post that I've been considering. Everyone wants everything to be tidy, even the conspiracies or explanations of the trailer's misdirection. See how many/most think Snoke's talking about Ben. And the alternatives given are all characters we are already familiar with. If not Ben is it Snoke? Vader? Luke himself? Rey? Sheev?

All too easy.

What about someone we know nothing about (yet)?

Maybe Luke is talking about Rey's mother. It could be Luke's ex, it could just be any other force-sensitive female.

There are a lot of ways you can go with this. Did she turn dark? That would be pretty disheartening to Ben, so maybe it was the stimulus for him to leave. Was she integral in the fall of the temple? Did she present some power that has been genetically passed on that gave Luke notice? Wouldn't any of the above reasons be a good impetus to get Luke to wipe her memory and bury her off-world (so she wouldn't awaken said powers)?

I think Rey's mother being explosively powerful, particularly if she was Luke's mate/wife, could explain one reason Luke was taken so off-guard and literally buried in the temple. Also why he's sad-face, hermit, MGTOW Luke now.

Luke didn't take the warning signs/red flags seriously, until it was too late. Now he's seeing the same type of power bubble up from her (his?) daughter, and perhaps at a younger age or maybe signs it could even be more powerful than what her mother was living with. Losing her mother was bad enough. But losing his daughter to lack of self-control is terrifying.

Because I don't think Luke is "scared" of a powerful being for the sake of them being powerful. He was composed against his father, even when losing on Bespin. Even when confronted with the truth of his parentage, he exhibited shock, but composed himself and retreated. He showed no fear against the emperor. I'm sure he thought he'd die at his hands while being shocked, but never once do we see Luke COWER in fear from outright power. He wasn't afraid of his father. Or Sheev. And Ben... well, I doubt it. Hell, Rey has already bested Ben without training. I don't think Ben has ever remotely scared Luke.

To me this means that the only way power itself could scare Luke is if it is attached to the prospect of loss. i.e., what he sees in Rey terrifies him of Rey being either a) self-destructing or b) snatched up by Snoke for being so unrefined and powerful to be used as a weapon. This is what makes Luke so powerful himself in a way. He fights to protect. He didn't think of attacking Palpatine until his sister was mentioned. That angered and terrified him. And he'd be even more protective of his daughter....

 

Well, if this is true, the implication would be Snoke has met Rey before. Just the words Snoke uses suggest that whoever he is talking to, he's met LONG before this conversation. Furthermore, that doesn't seem to be a conversation that would transition to torturing her.

I do think he is referring to Ren, and Luke is referring to Rey.

I also loathe the implication of either of them being more powerful than Luke Skywalker at this point.

While I don't think Snoke is talking to Luke, I think the plot of this movie revolves around Snoke and Luke.

Snoke fears Luke. Wants him dead. Somehow, Ben and Rey are his targets. I believe Snoke and Luke are enemies and instead of the bad guy turning the hero..the bad guy is turning the hero's legacy, or metaphorical children against him.

It seems like Snoke's motives are against Luke, and the Jedi or exclusively. Luke is the last of the Jedi. The Jedi, who were supposed to be extinct at the hands of the Sith, and the "chosen one". Who better to plunge the Jedi and Skywalker into the darkness than his kin?

Furthermore, this all makes sense even more if Snoke is an ancient sith lord who once renounced the Sith.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 11, 2017 ---

Why force-sensitive female specifically?

And again, WHY would anyone display more bubbling power than anyone from the Skywalker bloodline? 2017? The Skywalkers were born from the force. Randoms don't have that innate power that Anakin and his kin do. That was Lucus' vision.

 

I agree that it kind of sucks thinking Luke has lost his mojo and seeing his over-the-top scared face too much in the trailer. It worries me we might not get to see him shine so that Rey can have her time in the (twin) sun(s).

That said, the prospect that Snoke has met Rey before is intriguing and cannot be ruled out I don't believe. How did Ben, training at the temple, come across Snoke in the first place? How does Leia/Han know Snoke by name as well, and undoubtedly Luke knows Snoke by extension.

Did Snoke train at the temple? Was he in disguise? Was he an instructor?

Or maybe he could just view it remotely by force. He clearly had his eyes on Ben. Doesn't matter if that means physically seeing him in person or seeing him from afar.

So by extension he could have 'seen' Rey before as well. He could have interacted with her; in person or remotely. The same as he was somehow able to do with Ben.



As far as what is discussed before force raep, who knows? I could see it fitting in perfectly. 'Hey, I've been checking you out, special thang. I'm gonna ________ you now.' *proceeds to do whatever it is he's doing* Alternatively, it could be a bit of his monologue towards her as she is brought before him when he tries to turn her willingly. Think of how Palpatine talked at Luke before coaxing him into striking him.

 

I never thought it wasn't Kylo until your question! I still voted Kylo though.

 

Why a force-female? Because we don't know her *mother*. Unless Disney is going a VERY progressive direction with two male parents....

I think her father is implied. He's someone we know. And he very well could be Luke. But her mother is even more mysterious and less-considered. That's kind of the whole point of my post - her MOTHER would be a bit more out of left-field if that was what Luke was referring to.

That's why a force-female specifically.

And why not? It was just an idea really. As far as Lucas' vision; we are a bit past that. What can be said about his vision that hasn't already been said? A million times I've read good and bad things about the direction Disney is taking the series.

We don't know what Rey is. We don't know her lineage. Could be Skywalker. Might not be. Clearly the villains of Snoke and Sheev don't need Skywalker blood to be powerful.

 

And can we tone down the "rape" talk please?

 

Toning it down would imply something salacious has been said. It is clearly a violation of the mind/body; it doesn't have to have a sexual connotation. "Mind rape" is a very common term.

But if you feel better I'll refrain from using the colloquial explanation to what we have no idea is really taking place.

 

I'm highly sensitive because I have a family member who was years ago. Not attacking you and sorry if my over sensitivity to the comment sounded personal.

 

Ah. I see. Sorry to hear! And no worries. Do you object to the word itself being used?

If so I'll go back and edit it out to something more neutral.

 

I gotta say, I post on another forum that has Star Wars stuff, and the posters there are homers in general, defend the films and scrutinize ideas that display any criticism so it is INCREDIBLY refreshing to have an objective conversation here that isn't about defense, and validating opinion, so I just want to thank you for that Plagueis, for not being disrespectful.

As far as your answer to my female question, I clearly missunderstood your post. I thought you were implying that Luke was talking about a force-sensitive female, in general. Didn't realize you were discussing Luke's comments in the context of him referring to Rey's mother. Gotcha.


And to your "why not" in regards to the Skywalker power thing..well, Sheev and Snoke are different cases. Snoke is old, and learned. Sheev was manipulative, very smart, and experienced in his force application...same with Yoda. Being "powerful" and having an innate powerful connection to the force are different. Anakin had more raw force power and potential than Palpatine and Yoda. Palpatine and Yoda were still better force users and more "powerful" with their force application despite Anakin having more raw potential.

That's what I mean. Non Skywalkers can be more more experienced and powerful force users in their application, but I've come to understand that Anakin has a greater connection to the force than anyone. Lucas has stated Anakin was destined to become the strongest force user ever, because of his connection. His kin also have the connection. So I was always of the assumption that while their may be stronger force users, no one has a greater connection to the force than Anakin and thus his kin, cause Anakin's connection to the force is canon. So having a random have similar, or a stronger connection to the force than Anakin, in my opinion, sort of re-continues force mythology, just because of what has been canonically stated about Anakin's connection to the force. My opinion

 

No, no worries. Let's just get back to Star Wars talk

 

Either he's talking about Kylo, (and how it ended up with his academy being in flames)

or it's an indication that Rey's parents may have been Sith.. and Luke met them (and possibly killed them)

 

To your first point: lol and thanks. Unfortunately, that is most of the internet. What can you do? I just drop in to share ideas. Maybe they've already been thought up. Maybe someone, such as yourself, can point out a glaring inconsistency. Or maybe it's just a matter of opinion and we can all agree we don't have enough information yet so all we can do is speculate!

My intention was just to think of something that could be very integral and important, yet isn't obvious yet. I think that could be her mother in any fashion. Sure, we have all speculated as to who her mother could be. But for her mother to have passed on a flaw/time-bomb in the force, or even caused the wrecking of the temple - that could be a bigger issue that just who her mother is for the sake of knowing her name.

This idea is born from the concept that Rian specifically knows not to give out the plot in the trailer. This is supposed to be the SHOCK! and TWIST! film. What's the point in openly showing Reylo and taking everything for surface-value? Many others have already pointed out the possibility of creative editing to hype us up. But I'm sure in no way is everything as simple as it seems, other than straight-forward things like Poe piloting an X-wing in a space battle.

So while we're being led to believe character X is referring to surface-character Y, what if the bigger picture is someone off-screen? Enter: Rey's mother. Same goes if, say, someone was pulling the strings behind Snoke and Snoke just being a figurehead (though with the way he manipulates Rey's body I don't know! Could it be a dream? Could Snoke be being puppeted or somehow channeling another's powers?).

Suffice to say, it's probably not going to play out that way. I was just trying to think outside the box, yet inside the realm of possibility. As opposed to 'Snoke was talking about Jar Jar!' theories...



To your second point - I understand what you're saying. I guess all I can say is it depends on which direction Disney decides to take it. I know many are not happy with Rey being OP (claims of M. Sue). Would it be OK if Luke was her father? Even in the absence of training? Could she just be something outside of Skywalker blood that has channeled a big power in the force somehow? I don't know!

If I *had* to bet I'd still say that I think Rey is Luke's daughter. While that just seems to obvious, it would at least explain the Skywalker connection you seek.

 

If she is Luke's daughter, her OP is totally excusable. Let's not forget, Anakin flew a jedi star fighter and lead a battle for the republic in space at 9 years old lol. Plot device-like use in the force. That was point though. Anakin's force connection was like a narrative device/borderline 4th wall break/writer implant. The whole bloodline is mythological and I LOVE the exclusivity of it.

I think this trilogy is going to tie together with the previous two trilogies a lot more than people think. Obi Wan's voice Rey's forceback, Vader's helmet, and the concept art of Hayden Christensen's force ghost, and the secrets of the film are telling. I think we are going to see Anakin's force ghost. Vader was brought up twice in TFA and I have a little theory that Snoke's goal is to somehow bring back the power of Anakin. What is Rey's destiny? What does Snoke want from her?

Perhaps she is a vessel, a conduit that is connected to Anakin's force power. Who knows!

I don't think she is, but Snoke took Ben, Wants Luke dead, wants something to do with Rey..What is Snoke's motive?

TBH I'm more interested in him than anyone else in the film

 

So long as we aren't subjected to a flash-back where a young Rey says something like "Let's try force-lightning; that's a good trick!" *destroys academy*

 

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 11, 2017 ---

That would be amazing!

"This is not going to go the way you think", indeed.