SPECULATION Why all the Red associated with this film?

If you want a real weird twist, since red can mean death, maybe Luke wants Rey to kill Kylo Ren, then him, ending the Skywalkers and their curse.

 

we know whatever Luke's feeling coming out of the gate wasn't sanguine to Mark Hamill, which is interesting.
so there could be a slight Dark undercurrent there. but i have no doubt Luke will be fine and the ultimate message will be good.

Kennedy once said that Ren Ben is the model representation of the inwardly absorbed lost millennial.
you know, ultimately that the lesson he learns is going to be about finding a greater/nobler purpose.
we just don't know yet how Luke figures in.

 

Yeah and if rumors prove true about Rey refusing to kill Ren because Luke told her, chances are she's going to try and talk him out of whatever he's attempting to do. Help find a better way without giving in like his father did.

I would be shocked if Ren did not get redeemed.

 

if Ren Ben is not redeemed, the whole ST will be a wash for me.
i can't imagine what kind of message they would want to send to kids in particular by ending it with Ben dying in the Dark.

i don't listen to the rumors because i'm trying (though failing a lot) to avoid spoilers. hard to know which way Rey would go in the circumstances. i think she'd resist wanting to help Ben at first, but possibly their "bond" (if indeed they have a Force bond) will change her mind. likewise, i'm not sure what Luke's advice is going to be. i would think he'd tell her not to fight with Ben. i suspect she and Luke will not see eye-to-eye until Rey has some other Force vision perhaps, that makes it clear to her what they are up against (re: Snoke), and gives her some cause to empathize with Ben.

 

What kind of message did the PT send when Anakin went fully dark at the end?

 

They have something. It was confirmed officially. It's a connection of sorts that happened in TFA. I think she'll end up seeing more of his past, which will change her mind. Luke and all the red leads me to believe he's not Dark, but everything will go that way for now. Power will rise, chaos will occur, death will happen. Why he trains her despite all that is (in my opinion) because she won't be a Jedi like the ones we know. She won't be a Jedi. I think since Ben had a perfect balance of Light and Dark, Luke tried to train him, now Rey will take his place since Snoke took him (or like I think, Luke let it happen).

 

first of all, the PT was just a bad idea on so many levels, but i won't dismiss it out of hand on that alone.
we went into the PT understanding that it was the story of Anakin's downfall, so that's different: because we already knew he would ultimately be saved.
also, the PT ended with those reminders: the birth of Luke and Leia, the hope of the twin suns of Tatooine, etc.
so it's not comparable in that way.

it's entirely possible the ST could end with some promise of hope even killing Ben in the Dark.
but i can't think of a way they can do this without admitting that our OT heroes ultimately failed to save this kid.
and what kind of victory does that leave for our ST heroes? they save the galaxy perhaps, but the Skywalker family is doomed?
again, all the negative messages that sends about heroism, birthright, family, priorities. seems unlikely Disney would do that.

 

Because what if the ultimate goal isn't saving Ben Solo but saving the galaxy?
I know it would be a twist for Star Wars, but if the complaint of TFA is it is too similar to the OT, then why not try something new.

And Ben doesn't have to die or be saved. There are other movies to be made.
I say let him stay evil now.
Give us another Darth Vader to fear. Right, now we don't have that.

 

i htink that's definitely another way to go, but i would be disappointed if it did.
to me the "something new" is not only redeeming this kid, but putting him to rights: re-assimilating him as a productive member of the galaxy.
we didn't get that with Vader and a lot of people think it's a "cheat" or justice was not done or even argue that he wasn't really redeemed somehow.

i just don't see Luke giving up on this kid and i don't see that struggle continuing into a "next" trilogy either.
and looking at the BTS and the promo stuff, i don't see Ren Ben looking much more Vader;
to me he looks worse than ever in terms of being out of his rightful place/not belonging with Snoke and the FO.

but then i've been very grateful not to have another Darth Vader, so that may be the difference ~ ha! : D

 

I've said it before, and I am going to stick with it until December. I think Ben will turn at the end of the movie, leaving us with a cliffhanger regarding his survival.

 

hahaha ~ and i think he'll be on the cusp of turning--one foot in the door as it were.
he'll be on the right side, even if he's not entirely in the right frame of mind.
i'm not worried at all about his survival.

 

Maybe his sanity is a concern, but not his survival lol

 

ha! i hope they don't go the easy "crazy" route. from what we've gotten so far, Ben's definitely not crazy.
but who knows what Snoke's going to do to him in TLJ and how his father's murder is going to affect him.

looking at further associations with red: power, love, marriage, and danger are the primary ones.
but also heroism and sacrifice.

it really is a charged color.

 

Marriage... hmmm... unity?

 

balance? : D

 

I'm confused were talking about Luke actively pursuing the dark side. Encouraging questionable acts to destroy not just the bad guys but to kill him and the jedi. But after all of that ends justify the means relativity we worry that Ben might not be redeemed because of the message it sends to kids. I mean I am big on redemption but its not the only goal stories. Especially when we have already seen that the Sith already believed in using both sides of the force. Understanding both sides, "not just the narrow view of the Jedi."

 

Yeah I'm thinking of a marriage of 2 sides.

 

not sure who you're addressing, but i certainly have never supported or suggested Luke pursue the Dark side.
in fact, in my equation in which i suggested everyone is "wrong" i specifically left Luke out.
someone has to come up with the right answer and i suspect it will come from Luke and Rey exercising this idea of balance (which i think is a philosophical thing, not a course of relative action).

i'm actually arguing against an end-justifies-the-means resolution.
i think that's the problem with the everyone else in the galaxy; they are pursing their "righteous" goals without due consideration for the larger picture.

 

Yeah I'm thinking of a marriage of 2 sides.

Yeah the "ends justifies the means' is what I think Luke was planning, but that's not what will happen now that he's met Rey.

 

Sorry if I'm going to use your words, but you gave me the chance to ask somethig to all of you...
I know about Snoke's line, etc...
But...
It doesn't make any sense to me.

If Kylo, as the grandchild of the Chosen One, is the perfect balance Light/Dark... what is Luke, his son?
I mean... Kylo cannot be more special than Luke and Leia are, he may be special as much as they are... or (perhaps more likely) less.

Could it be that Snoke is just trying to "seduce", "deceive" Kylo?

Either way I believe that all this argument Kylo is the perfect balance has gone too far than it deserves.
Just IMO.