Why we really have to talk about Poe

That's not the point in fact.
Rey is the big mistery and the heroine of this trilogy, no matter what.
That's for sure.

I'm just saying, if there's going to be a big twist (I mean truly big) it cannot be related to her or to something
we're already speculating about.
And just to be clear: I don't even think the (big) twist it must be "discovering" a real parentage.
It could be any thing: maybe another character becoming a villain in the end.
Just to say the first thing that comes up to my mind.

In this sense, diverting attention may be worth.
Maybe even lying. I'm afraid, the rest of world outside US knows little about that Star Strek story.
That's something you have to consider thinking about it... SW is just another (bigger) thing...

But again, just to say.

 

Before dropping the bomb, let me be clear about few things.

1- I really believe any parallel we may find between some characters/scenes etc... may be just a cool reference. Nothing more.
A tribute to or the application of the notion "it rhymes, it's like poetry".
Something about how you write a story, a script... technically speaking.

I remember Lucas saying that the first scenes of Ep 1, with Qui Gon and Obi Wan, were ment
as mirror scenes of R2 and C3P0 arrival at Jabba's Caste, at the beginnin of Ep VI
And of course there isn't any blood connection between the 4 of them.
It's just a cool thing.
End of the story.

2- The section I've found on PDFL may be just that.

3- But it gave me the hint to look at TFA from another point of view.
Less obvious but absolutely in line with the idea "it rhymes, it's like poetry".
I'm still working on that.
I will probably edit most of the post I wrote above.
I'm taking my time, because it's really hard to me: I've found so many things, details that I'm a bit knock out .
And it's difficult - my fault - to explain it all in a decent English.
I'm also trying to collect (and to make) few imagines that may help.

4- However if I'm right about the way I now look at TFA - and I honestly think that I am, because
there's too much to be just coincidence - that regards all movie and all the characters (not just Poe),
That said, it could be still something without any further meaning.
I really believe that could be the case.
It may be just good writing.

In this sense, what I said before about the "big" twist it's just an opinion.
Probably it's just a matter of taste. What I'd prefer: something completely unexpected.

In few words: I don't take what I guess I've found as "the" clue, the smoking gun.

But to be 100% honest, I think we cannot rule out the opposite case.
That all the movie (TFA) was meant to appear in a different way, in retrospect: once all the story will be told.

Now, the bomb.
I'm joking... but I want to prove that since we haven't pay so much attention to this character, we may
have missed details that in on one hand don't prove there's going to be a big twist about him,
at the same time leave the door open for that twist.
And we've missed them, becasue we were sure nothing interesting could come from him.

In fact I first noticed them talking with some of you in this thread. Replying to some questions.

However:
Heir to the Jedi, it's a novel about few adventures of Luke in the years between ANH and ESB (the years that matter for what I'm about to explain).
He meets a girl he falls for but she dies and that's where the novel ends.
That proves only that by that time he's not committed to a life of not attachment.
He's not in fact a Jedi: as said this happens before ep. V, before he goes to Hoth, before he leaves to train with Yoda etc...

Now, Let's say that later on, he meets another girl.
This time something more happens, but they'll never see each other again.
He is a busy Rebel, he leaves to reach the Hoth Base and... meanwhile the girl dies... in childbirth. Or soon after.
Since we've never saw Shara Bey pregnant, what if the Demeron adopted a child? That child?
The time line... fits.
And I think a back story like that is less complicated than any possible backstory expalining how it is possible
that Rey is Luke child.

In addition:

Yes, Shattared Empire shows us the first meeting Shara/Luke.
And Luke says to her "You look familiar".
How can she look familiar, if they've never met before?
Ok, he's a force sensitive, he may had a premonition... but still: theres' room to speculate.
Maybe Shara was that girl sister, cusin. A friend living nearby.
And that's possible.
Because we don't know exactly when she joined the Rebellion.
We only know it was "prior the Battle of Hoth".

Then, when she meets Leia, she tells her not to write a condolence letter for her family if she dies.
Why? The cominc suggest it's because she doesn't want to give Leia any other burden.
Ok, Shara is cool. Or maybe... she's hiding from "the records" something or someone.
Because - as we know - those kind of letters were recorded.
And we know it, because years after Leia will write that letter.
The big difference is that by that time the war ended.
The empire wasn't there anymore.
Maybe what scared Shara wasn't there anymore.
Or maybe not. Because...

In Before the Awaking there's another detail I didn't notice before (as those above).
Why Kes Dameron in the year 7 ABY is "scared"?
He tells his son that now he's scared, while during the war he was worried but not scared.
He says "I'm scared it was all for nothing".
But in the 7 ABY I don't think the FO was yet a threat.
In Bloodline, set few years before TFA, Leia, an high profile person, a senator, is discovering how much powerfull that threat is.
But how and or why a former soldier, living in a colony 20 years before Bloodline, can be so fully aware of it, so much so... he's scared?
There could be 100 explainations, that don't have nothing to do with a big twist to come.
But again: you can speculate.

The thing is - I guess - without the "Poe was supposed to die" thing or if the character had more screen time in TFA,
we probably would have speculated about it.
There would be as much theories as those about Snoke.
Most likely completelly wrong, in the end.
But they would have been there...

 

@Master Skywalker and @Talon Karrde believe me if I say that I find both your arguments logical and legit, thugh you don't agree one anther.

And of course, you don't have to agree with me.
But...

"The way it works out in TFA is that Finn acts as a crossover character in Rey and Poe's individual comic book lines."

That's somehow what Obi Wan does in ANH with Luke and Vader. We may say it's him that put those two together.
In ANH you only have one scene with the 3 of them, in TFA you only have one scene with the 3 of them together.
And I believe the scene in TFA it's indeed the mirror scene of that of ANH.

But that's the climax.

If we look at the journey, it goes like that.

ANH: Starts with Vader and Leia
TFA: Starts with Poe and Kylo

Then:
ANH: introduces Luke
TFA: introduces Rey

Then comes the moment when plots seem not to follow the same path:

ANH: introduces Obi Wan when he and Luke meet each other.
TFA: introduces Finn before. First when Kylo looks at him and then when he saves Poe.

Thing is, I do believe (if Kylo mirrors Leia, Poe mirrors Vader and Finn mirrors Obi Wan) that:
Kylo + Finn is the mirror scene of Leia recording the message for Obi Wan
(she talks to him, but she doesn't see him -> the reverse/mirror scene is: Kylo looking at Finn and not saying a word)

Poe + Finn, scenes are mirrors scenes of Ep 3 scenes.
And it makes sense.
ROTS= what happened the last time Vader and Obi One saw each other (before meeting again on the DS).
TFA= what happens when Poe and Finn first meet (before meeting again on Takodana).

Plus:
ROTS: Obi Wan ends on Tatooine to leave baby Luke and we know he's got Anakin's lightsaber
TFA: Finn is left alone on Jakku with Poe's jacket and we know he's going to find Rey

Then:

ANH: Luke + Obi Wan (and Han)
TFA: Rey + Finn (and Han)

Meanwhile in ANH you see few scenes Vader + Leia (interrogation, etc..)
In TFA by this time you've already seen Poe being interrrogated by Kylo.

ANH: Luke + Obi Wan + Han arrive on the Death Star.
TFA: Rey + Finn + Han arrive in Takodana.

Add to that that to me
The "That's one hell of pilot" line mirrors Vader feeling Obi Wan's presence on the Death Star
(Vader doesn't see Obi Wan, but he knows Obi Wan is there, he recognizes him
Finn sees Poe, but he doesn't recognize him)

And so on. But though there are differences in the sequence of events still the "mirror scenes/reference" are there.

This is why I don't think there are plot holes.
I believe they followed a precise path, we may like or not.
I personally love it: becasue it's subtle.
But that's a matter of taste (and of course only if what I believe makes any sense)

But I guess there's even more, proving that Finn's arc is also connected to the idea that he is (as Obi Wan was)
the one who has to put togheter Poe and Rey.

If you compare the scenes Finn + Poe to those Finn + Rey... it rhymes, it's like poetry

Beside all the times where Poe and Rey say to Finn exactly the same thing, there are few other things that I find interesting.

When Rey sees for the first time Finn, he's wearing Poe's jacket.
In fact it's because of the jacket that BB8 points out Finn to Rey.
The shot Rey + BB8 is identical to that of
Poe + BB8 when Poe sees again Finn (at the Resistance base)... wearing his jacket.

Not only:
Poe tells Finn "BB8 told me you've saved me"
and then they hug.

Later on on the Starkiller Base
Rey tells Finn "He [Chewie] is saying it was your idea [to come here to save me]
Then they hug.

Again, I'd say, we may have enjoyed more another kind of dynamics.
Though I admit, I find it amazing.
But beside personal tastes, I believe nothing is random or not intentional.
These are not plot holes, but plot choises.

Last but not least.
We know in TFA Poe and Rey don't share a word (as Vader and Luke in ANH).
But we also know the meeting described in the novelization was in the script (Hidalgo confirmed that).
What is interesting to me is not that it hints to a romance or at least to some kind of attraction.

But the lines, if compared (again) to those of the scenes where Finn+Poe and Finn+Rey introduce themselves one another.

This is the missing meeting Poe+Rey



Look close:
Poe first introduces himself.
"Uh, hi" the pilot mumbled "I'm Poe."
With Finn, he first asks him what's his name.

POE: Hey, what's your name?
FINN: FN-2187!

However nothing "strange" untill now.

But then comes Rey's reply and that may suggest any line (if compared) is not coincidence:
First she says "I recognize the name"
Therefore among millions possible lines, curiously those words are exactly the contrary of "I don't know your name" which is what Rey told Finn.
And then "So you're Poe. Poe Dameron" And that's curiously what Poe said to Finn, at the end "I'm Poe. Poe Dameron"
Side note, again "curiously" she adds something "The x-wing pilot." Kind of remind me of "I've never met a Resistance fighter before".

Ok, the scene is not in the movie.
But it was in the script.
Maybe it was meantto close a full circle, with Finn acting as the one who connects (puts together) the other 2.
Maybe it's just me seeing too much.
Maybe there's too much to be ignored.

 

I guess it's Finn. As Obi Was in ANH. (BB8 was instrumental, as R2 was).

@zagernevans forgot somenting?

 

That's the big question for me. Not just the revalation: but if they're going to use the same "trick".
I don't know and I believe we have to wait until the movie will come out.
And that's why I'm not 100% sure the "mirror" thing is meant to foreshadow how the overall story will be played out.

Given the little we know about TLJ it could be.

Just to say:
V: Luke leaves the rest of the Rebels to go and train with Yoda
VIII: Rey has (at some point) to leave Ahch to to join again the Resistance

We have to see where she ends: if she ends with Luke on training the path (reversed) will match.

Hoth (ice) vs Crait (salt)

Then there were some spoilers

Spoiler

Poe: apparently he is leading the Resistance Fleet and it seems the fleet is chased by the FO.
vs
Vader leading the Empire Fleet to chase the Rebels at the beginning of V.

Laura Dern apparently is playing someone (in the Resistance) that has an "antagonistic" relationship with Poe.
Could this relationship be the mirror of Vader+the Emperor (we first see him, in V)?

The main problem I see it's Finn.
I do believe in TFA he was "mirroring" Obi Wan.
And it makes sense that in the end he's on a coma:
Finn = survived, he's alive, but he cannot communicate
vs
Obi Wan = he died, but being a force ghost he can communicate

But how can you use this connection Finn/Obi Wan and have Finn as a main character in the next movies?
They may use the prequels, as they've already done in that section of TFA that mirrors ep. III instead of IV.
However it's not so easy.

The other chance is making a new connection: Han/Finn.
And it could be:
Han ends ep. V frozen in the carbonite
vs
Finn starts ep VIII in a coma and inside that "pod" we see in the trailer.
It also looks like Finn has a lot of scenes with Rose (she may be mirroring Lando).

Let's pretend that will be case: it regards only Finn?
But then: what about the others?

Again, I think we shall wait and see.