Will John Williams Score Episode 8?

As much as I love Radiohead, I want to hear that John Williams magic in my Star Wars - I don't watch these films to think about depressing politics*

* unless I am George Lucas
** I'm sorry George..

 

You know Barry died in 2011...

 

I know it's not going to make sense but I think Williams is the glue to Star Wars. He should score the films as long as he's working and has the passion for it. The reason I say it's not going to make sense is that I felt Lucas needed to leave Star Wars for it to be great again. He was past his prime. I know some people have said the score to TFA isn't memorable or grand enough but to me it's a perfect fit to the tone of the film. Guess I'm more dedicated to Williams than Lucas...

 

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2015 ---

Oh wow, you're right. Ah man, I really like his music.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2015 ---

I see that now, you're right. Uh... I really like his music.

 

+1 The soundtrack was not suppose to give away any clues ( not yet) about the characters relationships so certain themes remain very subtile. I also liked that the soundtrack sounds kind of retro but also fresh, it captures the look and tone of the movie perfectly .

 

*waves conductor's baton mysteriously*
"You will use the London Symphony Orchestra at Abbey Road Studios next time...."

 

I'm not sure it's fair to compare Williams to Williams. His scores from the 70s and 80s remain some of the greatest music of cinematic history. The Empire Strikes Back might be the greatest film score ever composed. The number of classic themes from that film is just unbelievable.

I'd agree that the TFA score didn't have any epic themes. I didn't leave the theater with any one bit of music lodged in my brain, even to the degree I did with the PT. On the other hand, I'd also agree there's some very interesting music in the film. Rey's theme, the X-Wing attack, anything that plays when Kylo Ren is on the screen. It's just not epic, which is what we all expect of a Williams score.

The OT succeeds because of its cinematic charisma. Every element is pulling its own weight and everything is on more or less equal footing. It's sort of like The Who from 1968. Every member of that band was fighting for your attention, and the results were historic. None of those guys were virtuosos (even Entwistle) but together, operating at 10/10 and in this weird competition/harmony with everyone else... Live at Leeds. if you don't have it you're missing the most ferocious rock and roll of the 60s. The dawn of heavy metal, prog, hard rock, all right there.

Just like Star Wars was the culmination of everything that came before it, but as something totally new and different. Revolutionary. And Williams' score was one of those "band members" competing for your undivided attention. The editing, the visual effects, the scope and scale, the characters, the action - everything was competing and everything was in harmony. Classic.

I just felt this score was too far in the background for most of the movie. I'm not even sure it was Williams so much as it was Abrams and his sense of pace. I personally feel the music was one area where the style simply didn't match what came before. And again, I think it's more Abrams than Williams.

Sorry for the ramble and weird analogy... But I think it's applicable.

 

I have to agree, I love most of his work, this guy is a genius, but I guess it's time for a chance.

I liked it the best too.
It's strange, John Williams has still the power to craft something great, but overall the soundtrack is not his best work.

I have to agree it was the weakest from the whole series so far.
I'am not disappointed, but the soundtrack is not very memorable.
Maybe if a new guy steps in, we want John Williams back.
I suppose that he will retire sooner or later.
This question will be answered very soon, if he composes VIII or not.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2015 ---

You could be right, who knows, maybe J.J. wanted the soundtrack this way, very subtle and low in the backround.
Maybe John Williams has already written some tracks for VIII during the writing for VII.

 

I actually enjoyed JW's recent score for TFA, it was subtle whjich I like quite well and fit well into the movie, but with his age I hope he at least co-scores with another composer and then lead into a new conductor for Episode 9

 

Was there not already a guy who helped John Williams to conduct the orchestra for TFA?
Even if the TFA score is considered to be the weakest from the franchise it's much better as other new soundtracks out there.
I wanted to buy the soundtrack today, but it ended up in the shelf again.

 

I just don't understand why it's considered weak, it looks like it was obviously designed to be subtle so you would only notice it in the background, to me the soundtrack alone is great. Rey's theme alone is my 2nd favorite of the themes so far second only to Binary Sunset.

 

Many think it's weak, in my opinion it has not the bombastic/epic sound from the former soundtracks.
You can be right about it that John Williams hold back and J.J. wanted the music subtle in the backround.
If that was the goal they succeeded.

Rey's theme in the beginning reminds me of Ennio Morricone:

Finally we have a little touch of spaghetti western in Star Wars, it was about time.

Next time if Luke is going all Jedi Master in VIII and beating up the baddies and getting his revenge, please John Williams use this track as influence:

Why not borrow from spaghetti western?

 

Speaking of Ennio Morricone, I hate to say it, but I'm kind of hoping he wins the Oscar this year. Not only does he deserve it overall, I kinda think he deserves it this year over Williams. That being said, I don't think there should be any overly strong objections to Williams' score. It was pretty great. Sure, it's probably the weakest (might it be better than Jedi? Maybe, I'm not sure what was original in Jedi other than the fantastic Vader/Luke duel) of the Saga, but you're comparing it to some of the best work ever in cinema.

The same sort of issue occurred in The Hobbit where it was tough to replicate after such a brilliant score, though I think Williams actually did a much better job than Shore in creating something original and different that worked. There's just a lot of great stuff in this score. And you absolutely cannot throw away the ringing endorsements from JJ - at the end of the day JW is a collaborator on the project and seemed to deliver exactly what he was supposed to.

So I think it'd be kind of foolish not to want Williams to score VIII. ALmost reminds me of the calls to bench Brady after having one bad game (although I certainly wouldn't concede this is a weak score, those who don't want him back likely think it was). He is a living legend, the best composer of all time, and still doing fantastic work. That being said, I would not mind having a second guy in there working with him, to pass the baton. But I don't think it'd be the right thing to do, really - the whole "better get a replacement for when he passes" thing seems disrespectful.

 

i would love to see Williams score the EP. VIII

EP. VII had great pieces The March of the Resistance is amazing, the music in the beggining of the movie with the transports as well, and the Scherzo for X Wings and the Jedi Steps theme are incredible!!!

I believe he should compose the music and let Gustavo Dudamel conduct the scoring sessions with him overseeing everything.
Dudamel already conducted the opening and closing scores of The Force Awakens and did a Honorary Concert for Williams!

EP. VIIi is going to be an amazing movie im sure of that

 

nothing subtle about Kylos theme when he first enters the scene, loved it.

 

This score was somewhat determined by the film itself. The pacing felt very different from most other SW films and didn't really lend itself to a bombastic score such as Duel of the Fates. I don't even think DoTF would have fit the OT very well either, it was perfect for the film it was in.

John Williams is such a big part of SW, I do wonder what they'll do if he can no longer do this. Is it possible they'll rely heavily on the old OST?

 

I know EXACTLY what you mean about The Who. One of my favorite CD sets has long been the bootlegged Amsterdam show from September of 1969. Rough, raw and powerful music there. Live at Leeds, of course, is everything you say it is (and I second your recommendation - anyone who digs rock of any kind needs to check out that album.)

The TFA soundtrack, to me, sounds a lot more like "The Two" - Townshend and Daltrey without Moon and Entwistle. I mean, god love Pete and Roger for still wanting to play that music together, but it's considerably less of what we love about the Who. The familiar sound is still kind of there, but without the dynamic punch of that irreplaceable rhythm section (though Moon and Entwistle were more than that, as they often did a helluva lot more than simply holding down the root.)

In Williams' case, I honestly just think that it's his age. He can still compose some beautiful music, but it doesn't have the energy and the thematic punch that it once had. And I don't think this is a deliberate style choice. Star Wars is and always has been an epic, and it needs a score to match. TFA is a very fast-paced movie, of course. But then again, so was Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I still remember the first time I went to see Raiders back in 1981. I knew nothing about it other than that it was an adventure movie with Harrison Ford as the lead. One of my most vivid memories is watching people coming out of the theater as we were standing in line waiting to go in. Their eyes were all glazed and they were walking in a stunned daze, as though they'd just gotten off of the world's biggest, baddest, bestest roller coaster. And that was really what Raiders was! And yet... it had one of the single most powerful soundtracks that John Williams ever composed. I'd put it right up there with Empire Strikes Back.

So I don't agree that a frenetically paced movie like TFA needs a quiet, mellow, understated little musical score. I think that's just what John Williams has in him at age 83.

My vote up at the top there is for an Episode VIII collaboration between Williams and another composer. What I'm envisioning is a scenario where Williams has another younger composer to work with, who can come up with the distinctive, memorable character/concept themes, freeing Williams up to work up variations on those themes and blend it all in with the more understated incidental music that he still does so well. Because it's the big themes that the TFA soundtrack is really missing. Yes, there are character themes in there, but they sound an awful lot like the incidental music, rather than standing out as cornerstones of the soundtrack like in Williams' classic scores.

But give him somebody who can help him come up with those "songs", and I bet he'll still work wonders with them.

 

But who? No pun intended.

The man's style cannot be replicated, but it's integral to the FEELING of Star Wars.

The problem is film scores have gone hard rock. The orchestral scores are not frenetic in the way a Mahler or Mozart concerto is, but more like Metallica. Lots of percussion, lots of repetitive lead lines, lots of brass, very aggressive. Williams' scores, while assertive, have always, ALWAYS hewed more closely to baroque and romantic periods. I'm having a hard time thinking of a modern film composer who is stylistically similar. It seems guys like Zimmer are more influential in today's cinema.

Another thing about the magic of Williams' scores... not just his themes, but his cues. Amazing. I can't imagine Star Wars without that mystical woodwind introduction to the Force theme, even before the french horn comes in. The OT is FILLED with cues like that. They give you so much information about what's playing out on the screen. You don't need expository dialogue because the music informs you.

When we talk about the unbridled brilliance of the original films, THIS is exactly what we're talking about. Again, it's like The Who in 1968 (which was also brilliant).

 

Well, Giacchino has a cameo as a stormtrooper in TFA, right???

 

He's the obvious choice. I did like his Trek score, although it didn't really sound like Trek. Goldsmith's and Horner's work is just so iconic. Like Williams.
So I dunno. I'm sure it'll be a difficult adjustment for a lot of us, so I think I'd prefer to see Williams handle the remainder of this trilogy with guys like Desplat (who I do really like and who did a great job of taking up the reins of Williams with the final Harry Potter films) take on the anthologies. Maybe by the time the next saga trilogy rolls up we'll be ready.