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Your ranking of Star Wars films - post TROS

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Juniper, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. Jedi Master Wysk

    Jedi Master Wysk Clone Commander

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    ROTJ
    TROS
    ESB
    ANH
    TLJ
    ROTS
    TFA
    R1
    Solo
    TPM
    AOTC
     
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  2. General Kenobi

    General Kenobi Rebel Commander

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    Here goes, I tend to feel stronger about the upper portion of the list.

    ESB
    RoTJ
    RoTS
    ANH
    AoTC
    RO
    TPM
    Solo
    TFA
    TRoS
    TLJ
     
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  3. SJShark91

    SJShark91 Clone

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    ESB
    ANH
    ROTJ
    RO
    ROTS
    TFA
    Solo
    PM
    AOTC/TLJ&ROS all equal turds to the franchise
     
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  4. Dusty S.

    Dusty S. Clone

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    Since I'm new here and just posted in the new member thread, I thought this would be a reasonable place to start.

    From favorite to least favorite:

    A New Hope
    The Empire Strikes Back
    Rogue One
    Return of the Jedi
    Revenge of the Sith
    The Rise of Skywalker
    The Last Jedi
    The Force Awakens
    Solo
    The Phantom Menace
    Attack of the Clones
     
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  5. MaximoFilms

    MaximoFilms Rebel General

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    The Last Jedi
    The Empire Strikes Back
    The Force Awakens
    A New Hope
    Solo
    Rogue One
    The Rise of Skywalker
    Revenge of the Sith
    Return of the Jedi
    Attack of the Clones
    The Phantom Menace
     
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  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yesterday I saw TROS for the first time since theaters. In December I would've rated it among my top 3, possibly at the top... with the caveat that I was well aware of its newness playing a large part in that.

    I still enjoy it, but it's fallen quite a bit. It has some incredible moments, but the "treasure hunt" aspect of the movie just really doesn't work for me.

    Here's how I'd rate them as of now, best to least best:

    Return of the Jedi
    The Force Awakens
    The Empire Strikes Back
    The Last Jedi
    Rogue One
    The Rise of Skywalker
    A New Hope
    Revenge of the Sith
    Solo
    The Phantom Menace
    Attack of the Clones

    Keep in mind, I still love them all. I would even consider Solo to be one of my "favorite" Star Wars movies, even as low as it is! Turns out you can't just place everything at the top. ;)
     
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  7. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

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    1. Return of the Jedi
    2. The Empire Strikes Back
    3. The Last Jedi
    4. A New Hope
    5. The Force Awakens
    6. The Rise of Skywalker
    7. Revenge of the Sith
    8. Rogue One
    9. The Phantom Menace
    10. Attack of the Clones
    11. Solo
    I love them all, though. It’s really. hard to rank them all and my top eight tend to shift around quite a bit depending on the day.
     
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  8. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Force Sensitive

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    Welcome to the Cantina!
     
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  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Planning on rewatching all 9 throughout the week for the first time since TROS came out to see how I feel about it.
     
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  10. odmichael

    odmichael Rebel Official

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    1. The Empire Strikes Back
    2. A New Hope
    3. The Last Jedi
    4. Rogue One: A Star Wars Story
    5. Return of the Jedi
    6. Revenge of the Sith
    7. The Force Awakens
    8. Solo: A Star Wars Story
    9. The Phantom Menace
    10. The Rise of Skywalker
    11. Attack of the Clones
     
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  11. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Will Watch Anytime Ranking
    TFA 1
    Solo 1
    ANH 1
    TROS 3
    ROTJ 3​
    Will Watch Once In A While
    TPM 1
    TLJ 2
    ESB 2​
    Need A Reason To Watch
    ROTS 3
    AOTC 2
    R1 ...eh...​

    Numbers on right are the relative Act number.
    In the case of Solo and R1, it's what Act they feel like to me.

    Ranked As I See Them For Their Craft
    TLJ :eek:
    ESB :cool:
    TROS :eek:
    Solo :cool:
    ROTJ :cool:
    ANH ;)
    TFA :cool:
    ROTS :rolleyes:
    TPM :)
    AOTC :confused:
    R1 :(

    Faces represent my feeling about the artestry of the film, while the rank is where I would place it in scale of quality of the craft.

    Ranked By Sentimentality
    ANH
    ROTJ
    Solo
    TFA
    ESB
    TLJ
    TPM
    TROS
    ROTS
    AOTC
    R1​

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #191 Jayson, May 13, 2020
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  12. Messi

    Messi Force Attuned

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    We can see that you don't like R1 on any way possible! :D:D:D

    I really enjoyed this movie both of the times on theatre. Can you specify why you dislike it so much?;)
     
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  13. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    It's not that I dislike R1, actually.

    Let's go through each category.

    AS I SEE THEM FOR THEIR CRAFT
    The film suffers in doing something that is remarkable in terms of art and craft of narrative or cinema.
    Don't get me wrong. It has plenty of shots that are pretty and several of the CGI shots are stunningly envisioned and executed.
    But what Star Wars films do is paint a narrative around a central theme, and that theme is employed as a motif which the characters are drug through to explore that topic. Each film explores an ontological concept and the films move in a way that mimics the stages of that ontological growth usually experienced over decades through one's life.
    It's not just that they have a theme. It's that they move in and around a very specific ontological exploration (or multiple).

    R1 doesn't really have that strong of an ontological theme. It's central theme is basically coming to terms with fatalistic hope...kind of. It's a bit muddy because the context is as a prelude to ANH, but ANH is already a film on the theme of hope and one's obligation to help and endeavor even when the odds are far against you and you are effectively on a suicide mission.
    So it's somewhat hitting the same bell as ANH's theme, but with a down-turn like ESB because these characters are doing everything for a hope they will never see the result of. It's only real addition to the ANH theme is that of fatalism. It's a sort of existential version of ANH.

    They both ask a similar question, but slightly different. ANH asks whether you should try when it's scary and horribly uncertain, while R1 doubles down and asks whether you should try when you know you will die.

    I don't personally find that to be a very compelling motive for the film because it's only marginally different than ANH's theme.

    In regards to how it moves through that theme, it doesn't do that very well in a Star Wars way.
    Star Wars films move in such a way as that ontological theme is represented in the way the narrative moves; the theme itself becomes a character through the movement of the film's narrative - like a symphonic motif (think Beethoven's 5th as an easy example).

    There's always one scene which itself is a miniature replay of the whole films' theme, usually towards the end of the film.

    Even Solo does this. The Kessel escape, for example, has the Falcon go in a complete circle over a whirl of turmoil in a desparate nutter idea just on the off chance for that one shot at success against all sane odds, and when they come back around to where they started there's a shining sliver of light which is their way forward instead of continuing in circles.
    This is a refrain of the entire film's motif which Solo has been running. He's been running in circles that are just new versions of the same circles he's always been running blindly. He's just been grabbing a hold of anything he can and climbing without really any direction of where to go.
    And then, he finally sees his way forward and sense of self when he faces down Beckett, loses Qi'ra, and comes face to face with Enfys Nest's rebellion group for the second, and more fully comprehended, time.

    He still hasn't any devoted cause, but he has found his sense of self and place in the world, and discovered what truly matters to him.

    In ANH, you have this so overtly in Luke and Han at the end in the trench run: Have faith, and trust your faith.
    This is the constant theme in the show and the trench run refrains the whole film's motif.

    Each does this.

    R1 doesn't really do this. It has a theme of continuing to have hope in the face of knowing you will not live to see its fruit, but that's not really moved through the whole film as a character itself, and then refrained in the end in a poetic representation by actions that are symbolic of that whole film's path in one scene.


    From a craft of cinema perspective, I don't see a huge amount that is aggressive in painting an artistic vision.
    It's more like I'm looking at several artistic visions by different team directors so there's really impressive shots, but it's like a bunch of volley-ball hits where I'm only seeing one hit per person. No one is setting up a shot for another; there's not a compounding artistic vision of cinema expressed.
    What I mean, is that I can't look at R1 and in it see an opinion about cinema in it, nor the role of cinema in our cultural myth making and story telling.

    Every Star Wars film, aside from this one, has that. Regardless how cringe-worthy some aspects are, even AOTC endeavors to convey its ideals about cinema through it. It's not just trying to make a good film.

    Regardless of what people think of TLJ, for example, it very loudly slams the hammer down on its vision of cinema with absolutely no apologies at all.
    It's a tour de force in almost every scene.

    A non-Star Wars example of this is basically everything Quentin Tarantino has ever done. Personally, I don't really enjoy his movies that much, but one thing I can say without a doubt is that the man has a definite idea about cinema and its role in our cultural myth making, and one's obligation to that narrative when making a film.

    I don't get that out of R1 at all, but I do get that from every other Star Wars film in the catalogue.

    BY WILL WATCH ANYTIME
    Alright, so toss off my high falutin cinema brat hat and just talk about R1 just as something to watch.

    I like two things: A fun romp, or a philosophical exploration.
    A great example of the first: Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark
    A great example of the second: Basically anything by Ridley Scott

    The problem is that R1 doesn't really fall into either category. What little philosophy is explored isn't personally interesting to me, as it's rather benign to tell me about the merit of pushing onward for what comes after you no longer exist. That's very old news and basically the nuts and bolts of the philosophical consequence of evolution's biological prerogative extrapolated into a societal context, which I've already seen explored and waxed upon several times over in my life through scores of sacrificial and social obligation war films in the blanket of WW1 or WW2.

    And it's not a fun romp of a film because, well...it's not a romp. Everyone dies. That's not a romp.
    Furthermore, it's overtly epic. Everything is presented as massively important, threatening, detrimental, and stressful.
    So it's not a romp.

    Keep in mind, not all Star Wars films are a romp. Most of the catalog is, but a few aren't.
    But it doesn't have a romp, or philosophical stage that I find interesting.

    When you mix that with the lack of anything that I see to be terribly remarkable in terms of craft, from above, I've kind of ran out of things to look at the film for.

    It's the most Transformers Star Wars film I've seen.
    It's just...there. It has a beginning, middle, end, and it has a theme. Stuff happens. There's really pretty shots of ships and vehicles, and one really cool mystical monastic character, but that's about it.

    This is one of those times where I think it would have been really beneficial to NOT tell a coming of age story (basically every Star Wars story), and instead flip the script and tell an old-man's story of refinding purpose in a life already spent and past by.
    If the story had focused around Chirrut instead of Jyn, it would have been less a magicless tragic Harry Potter story and more a generational Star Wars variation of The Fisher King.

    That would have been relatively interesting, I think, and fresh.
    The only thing really all that fresh in R1 was basically that it lacked Jedi/Sith, which if you don't then double-down on visual poetics like Solo did (homages, refrains, etc...), then you basically have a straight sci-fi film wearing Star Wars costumes.

    So, it doesn't really rank high on my ranking for watching.
    SENTIMENTALITY
    Obviously, it's not sentimental for me, but this is where I loop back from saying that I don't dislike the film.
    I don't.
    I just don't like it either.

    I don't really feel anything about it. It's just...there. Like a poster with a bunch of faces slapped on it.

    AOTC is above R1 because AOTC irritates me. While I fully realize the technical craft going on in it, the film still irritates the crap out of me.
    But at least that's something.

    R1 doesn't even irritate me. It's just grey. That's why I said it was the most Transformers Star Wars film. It's just...there.

    I usually, quite honestly, forget that R1 exists until I read through posts that mention it. I literally counted my ranking list twice trying to figure out why I was coming up one film short numerically when I felt like I had them all when I read their names before it hit me that R1 was missing from the list.​

    --------------------

    That was a bit long, sorry.
    But hopefully that explains things.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  14. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

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    Wow! :eek: Mind blown!

    A couple of things that I take out of this, (and we're going way off topic here, by the way, but I got interested).

    1. I... I can't even begin to understand how your mind works, @Jayson :) I don't have the brain power to see a movie the way you do; mine is the brain of a child, possibly a severely demented one. I sure am envious of your brain, dude :)



    2.
    HOLY MOLEY, that's it! That's the thing! I liked R1 a lot when I first saw it, but it has soured a little for me over consecutive viewings, without me managing to articulate exactly what's wrong. I mean, the film is obviously cobbled together form 2 (or possibly 3) competing versions, and the character of Jyn is at least 2 different characters... and her decisions makes no sense... and the entire Eadu sequence is ultimately pointless, but I have for a long time had the feeling that there's something else "wrong", too. Something fundamental and it is clearly this! An old man's (or woman's) tale of sacrificing their past and legacy (possibly even family) for the hope of a better future for everyone else (of something like that only better), now THAT would have been interesting.



    3. But back to redeeming sides of R1. What about humor? Is that a thing that works for you "on its own self"? I mean, do you find R1 funny at least? (For the record, I find it at times hilarious :p ).
     
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  15. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    1. Eh...I'm just overly analytical. It has its perks, but it comes with a downside of depressiveness and severe listlessness.

    2. Yeah...as I age, I'm more and more sensative to the fact that the overwhelming majority of stories are told from a very 20-year-old lens of thinking. I don't care if your target audience is 20 years old; there's ways to convey older-age provocations of thought into a story targeted at younger ages...humans have done this for thousands and thousands of years. We call them fairy tales and fables.
    But...well...we seem rather stuck in the "coming of age" motif and logic on repeat.

    3. I laughed a few times. I liked the droid humor, mostly.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  16. Messi

    Messi Force Attuned

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    Thanks for answering.

    Most parts of the topics 1 and 2 was almost impossible to follow because: first, english is just my 3rd language (soon it will be 4th because my french its getting better and I don speak english were I live now) and second you have a different way to analyse a film than I have. I can't go so deep analysing a movie like you do. I can see the general aspects and the overall message (s), catch some cultural references, enjoy the photography and the soundtrack (when its posible) and some other things, maybe...

    But I can understand what you meant on topic 3: Rogue One doesn't motivates you for multiples viewings, because ist just grey...aphatetic or frigid. Despite I had enjoyed my two viewings at the cinema I'm not so motivated to watch it for a 3rd time. Same happened with Solo (just watched once) and believe or not with Mandalorian (that probably 100% of SW fans loved). I just can't rewatch the Mandalorian, its a fun ride but at the same time its so grey, frigid or repetitive. It lacks in originality to me. Maybe you have the same feeling with R1.
     
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  17. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    More or less, that will do.

    In an attempt at brevity and clarity:
    1. It lacks a strong artistic vision.
    2. It's not a fun thrill ride, nor is it a deep thinking story. Those are my styles.
    3. Pretty much what you said.


    p.s.
    Congratulations on being multi-lingual!
    I am a pitiful monolinguist - that is, a typical American.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  18. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Rebel Official

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    Timeless Classics I Never Get Tired of:

    The Empire Strikes Back 10/10
    Star Wars 10/10

    Timeless Classics that are Fun but Somewhat Flawed:

    Return of the Jedi 8/10

    Good but not Great:

    Rogue One 7/10

    Not as Bad as I remember them:

    Revenge of the Sith 7/10
    The Phantom Menace 6/10

    Icky but can watch if I don't have any of the above at my disposal:

    The Force Awakens 5/10 (gotta say, first twenty minutes I give a solid 8)
    Attack of the Clones 5/10

    So bland and flawed I don't feel like seeing it again:

    Solo 3/10

    A betrayal of Star Wars fans who want solid, coherent scripts and good character development, a bridge between VII and IX, and believable characters:

    The Last Jedi 2/10

    So terrible it makes me wonder how anyone can defend this utter trash, a dire compilation of plot holes and lack of anything resembling a script, oh my god the plotholes, is it even possible.. the worst thing I have ever paid money to watch, a movie that has me lost all interest in any other Disney SW product including the one good thing The Mandalorian and I cannot express enough my utter disgust with this total utter crap even a roll of toilet paper could have done better:

    Plan 9 from Outer Space

    I kid. It's

    The Rise of Skywalker minus10 googolplex/10
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    So yeah. Did this.

    Tier 1 - Legitimately great movies
    ESB
    TLJ
    ANH

    Tier 2 - Good solid fun nothing special
    ROTJ
    TFA

    Tier 3 - Fine. Whatever. I can sit through it
    TPM
    ROTS

    Tier 4 - A chore to watch and won't do it again if I don't have to
    TROS
    AOTC
     
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  20. Oliver Hodges

    Oliver Hodges Clone Trooper

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    this is easy
    ATC
    RotS
    ANH
    TPM
    ESB
    TRoS
    TFA
    RotJ
    TLJ
     
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