Your ranking of Star Wars films - post TROS

Here goes, I tend to feel stronger about the upper portion of the list.

ESB
RoTJ
RoTS
ANH
AoTC
RO
TPM
Solo
TFA
TRoS
TLJ

 

ESB
ANH
ROTJ
RO
ROTS
TFA
Solo
PM
AOTC/TLJ&ROS all equal turds to the franchise

 

Since I'm new here and just posted in the new member thread, I thought this would be a reasonable place to start.

From favorite to least favorite:

A New Hope
The Empire Strikes Back
Rogue One
Return of the Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
The Rise of Skywalker
The Last Jedi
The Force Awakens
Solo
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

 

The Last Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back
The Force Awakens
A New Hope
Solo
Rogue One
The Rise of Skywalker
Revenge of the Sith
Return of the Jedi
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace

 

Yesterday I saw TROS for the first time since theaters. In December I would've rated it among my top 3, possibly at the top... with the caveat that I was well aware of its newness playing a large part in that.

I still enjoy it, but it's fallen quite a bit. It has some incredible moments, but the "treasure hunt" aspect of the movie just really doesn't work for me.

Here's how I'd rate them as of now, best to least best:

Return of the Jedi
The Force Awakens
The Empire Strikes Back
The Last Jedi
Rogue One
The Rise of Skywalker
A New Hope
Revenge of the Sith
Solo
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

Keep in mind, I still love them all. I would even consider Solo to be one of my "favorite" Star Wars movies, even as low as it is! Turns out you can't just place everything at the top.

 

1. Return of the Jedi
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Last Jedi
4. A New Hope
5. The Force Awakens
6. The Rise of Skywalker
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Rogue One
9. The Phantom Menace
10. Attack of the Clones
11. Solo

I love them all, though. It’s really. hard to rank them all and my top eight tend to shift around quite a bit depending on the day.

 

Welcome to the Cantina!

 

Planning on rewatching all 9 throughout the week for the first time since TROS came out to see how I feel about it.

 

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Last Jedi
4. Rogue One: A Star Wars Story
5. Return of the Jedi
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Force Awakens
8. Solo: A Star Wars Story
9. The Phantom Menace
10. The Rise of Skywalker
11. Attack of the Clones

 

Will Watch Anytime Ranking

TFA 1
Solo 1
ANH 1
TROS 3
ROTJ 3​

Will Watch Once In A While

TPM 1
TLJ 2
ESB 2​

Need A Reason To Watch

ROTS 3
AOTC 2
R1 ...eh...​

Numbers on right are the relative Act number.
In the case of Solo and R1, it's what Act they feel like to me.

Ranked As I See Them For Their Craft

TLJ
ESB
TROS
Solo
ROTJ
ANH
TFA
ROTS
TPM
AOTC
R1 ​

Faces represent my feeling about the artestry of the film, while the rank is where I would place it in scale of quality of the craft.

Ranked By Sentimentality

ANH
ROTJ
Solo
TFA
ESB
TLJ
TPM
TROS
ROTS
AOTC
R1​

Cheers,
Jayson

 

We can see that you don't like R1 on any way possible!

I really enjoyed this movie both of the times on theatre. Can you specify why you dislike it so much?

 

It's not that I dislike R1, actually.

Let's go through each category.

AS I SEE THEM FOR THEIR CRAFT

The film suffers in doing something that is remarkable in terms of art and craft of narrative or cinema.
Don't get me wrong. It has plenty of shots that are pretty and several of the CGI shots are stunningly envisioned and executed.
But what Star Wars films do is paint a narrative around a central theme, and that theme is employed as a motif which the characters are drug through to explore that topic. Each film explores an ontological concept and the films move in a way that mimics the stages of that ontological growth usually experienced over decades through one's life.
It's not just that they have a theme. It's that they move in and around a very specific ontological exploration (or multiple).

R1 doesn't really have that strong of an ontological theme. It's central theme is basically coming to terms with fatalistic hope...kind of. It's a bit muddy because the context is as a prelude to ANH, but ANH is already a film on the theme of hope and one's obligation to help and endeavor even when the odds are far against you and you are effectively on a suicide mission.
So it's somewhat hitting the same bell as ANH's theme, but with a down-turn like ESB because these characters are doing everything for a hope they will never see the result of. It's only real addition to the ANH theme is that of fatalism. It's a sort of existential version of ANH.

They both ask a similar question, but slightly different. ANH asks whether you should try when it's scary and horribly uncertain, while R1 doubles down and asks whether you should try when you know you will die.

I don't personally find that to be a very compelling motive for the film because it's only marginally different than ANH's theme.

In regards to how it moves through that theme, it doesn't do that very well in a Star Wars way.
Star Wars films move in such a way as that ontological theme is represented in the way the narrative moves; the theme itself becomes a character through the movement of the film's narrative - like a symphonic motif (think Beethoven's 5th as an easy example).

There's always one scene which itself is a miniature replay of the whole films' theme, usually towards the end of the film.

Even Solo does this. The Kessel escape, for example, has the Falcon go in a complete circle over a whirl of turmoil in a desparate nutter idea just on the off chance for that one shot at success against all sane odds, and when they come back around to where they started there's a shining sliver of light which is their way forward instead of continuing in circles.
This is a refrain of the entire film's motif which Solo has been running. He's been running in circles that are just new versions of the same circles he's always been running blindly. He's just been grabbing a hold of anything he can and climbing without really any direction of where to go.
And then, he finally sees his way forward and sense of self when he faces down Beckett, loses Qi'ra, and comes face to face with Enfys Nest's rebellion group for the second, and more fully comprehended, time.

He still hasn't any devoted cause, but he has found his sense of self and place in the world, and discovered what truly matters to him.

In ANH, you have this so overtly in Luke and Han at the end in the trench run: Have faith, and trust your faith.
This is the constant theme in the show and the trench run refrains the whole film's motif.

Each does this.

R1 doesn't really do this. It has a theme of continuing to have hope in the face of knowing you will not live to see its fruit, but that's not really moved through the whole film as a character itself, and then refrained in the end in a poetic representation by actions that are symbolic of that whole film's path in one scene.


From a craft of cinema perspective, I don't see a huge amount that is aggressive in painting an artistic vision.
It's more like I'm looking at several artistic visions by different team directors so there's really impressive shots, but it's like a bunch of volley-ball hits where I'm only seeing one hit per person. No one is setting up a shot for another; there's not a compounding artistic vision of cinema expressed.
What I mean, is that I can't look at R1 and in it see an opinion about cinema in it, nor the role of cinema in our cultural myth making and story telling.

Every Star Wars film, aside from this one, has that. Regardless how cringe-worthy some aspects are, even AOTC endeavors to convey its ideals about cinema through it. It's not just trying to make a good film.

Regardless of what people think of TLJ, for example, it very loudly slams the hammer down on its vision of cinema with absolutely no apologies at all.
It's a tour de force in almost every scene.

A non-Star Wars example of this is basically everything Quentin Tarantino has ever done. Personally, I don't really enjoy his movies that much, but one thing I can say without a doubt is that the man has a definite idea about cinema and its role in our cultural myth making, and one's obligation to that narrative when making a film.

I don't get that out of R1 at all, but I do get that from every other Star Wars film in the catalogue.
​

BY WILL WATCH ANYTIME

Alright, so toss off my high falutin cinema brat hat and just talk about R1 just as something to watch.

I like two things: A fun romp, or a philosophical exploration.
A great example of the first: Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark
A great example of the second: Basically anything by Ridley Scott

The problem is that R1 doesn't really fall into either category. What little philosophy is explored isn't personally interesting to me, as it's rather benign to tell me about the merit of pushing onward for what comes after you no longer exist. That's very old news and basically the nuts and bolts of the philosophical consequence of evolution's biological prerogative extrapolated into a societal context, which I've already seen explored and waxed upon several times over in my life through scores of sacrificial and social obligation war films in the blanket of WW1 or WW2.

And it's not a fun romp of a film because, well...it's not a romp. Everyone dies. That's not a romp.
Furthermore, it's overtly epic. Everything is presented as massively important, threatening, detrimental, and stressful.
So it's not a romp.

Keep in mind, not all Star Wars films are a romp. Most of the catalog is, but a few aren't.
But it doesn't have a romp, or philosophical stage that I find interesting.

When you mix that with the lack of anything that I see to be terribly remarkable in terms of craft, from above, I've kind of ran out of things to look at the film for.

It's the most Transformers Star Wars film I've seen.
It's just...there. It has a beginning, middle, end, and it has a theme. Stuff happens. There's really pretty shots of ships and vehicles, and one really cool mystical monastic character, but that's about it.

This is one of those times where I think it would have been really beneficial to NOT tell a coming of age story (basically every Star Wars story), and instead flip the script and tell an old-man's story of refinding purpose in a life already spent and past by.
If the story had focused around Chirrut instead of Jyn, it would have been less a magicless tragic Harry Potter story and more a generational Star Wars variation of The Fisher King.

That would have been relatively interesting, I think, and fresh.
The only thing really all that fresh in R1 was basically that it lacked Jedi/Sith, which if you don't then double-down on visual poetics like Solo did (homages, refrains, etc...), then you basically have a straight sci-fi film wearing Star Wars costumes.

So, it doesn't really rank high on my ranking for watching.
​

SENTIMENTALITY

Obviously, it's not sentimental for me, but this is where I loop back from saying that I don't dislike the film.
I don't.
I just don't like it either.

I don't really feel anything about it. It's just...there. Like a poster with a bunch of faces slapped on it.

AOTC is above R1 because AOTC irritates me. While I fully realize the technical craft going on in it, the film still irritates the crap out of me.
But at least that's something.

R1 doesn't even irritate me. It's just grey. That's why I said it was the most Transformers Star Wars film. It's just...there.

I usually, quite honestly, forget that R1 exists until I read through posts that mention it. I literally counted my ranking list twice trying to figure out why I was coming up one film short numerically when I felt like I had them all when I read their names before it hit me that R1 was missing from the list.​

--------------------

That was a bit long, sorry.
But hopefully that explains things.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Wow! Mind blown!

A couple of things that I take out of this, (and we're going way off topic here, by the way, but I got interested).

1. I... I can't even begin to understand how your mind works, @Jayson I don't have the brain power to see a movie the way you do; mine is the brain of a child, possibly a severely demented one. I sure am envious of your brain, dude



2.

HOLY MOLEY, that's it! That's the thing! I liked R1 a lot when I first saw it, but it has soured a little for me over consecutive viewings, without me managing to articulate exactly what's wrong. I mean, the film is obviously cobbled together form 2 (or possibly 3) competing versions, and the character of Jyn is at least 2 different characters... and her decisions makes no sense... and the entire Eadu sequence is ultimately pointless, but I have for a long time had the feeling that there's something else "wrong", too. Something fundamental and it is clearly this! An old man's (or woman's) tale of sacrificing their past and legacy (possibly even family) for the hope of a better future for everyone else (of something like that only better), now THAT would have been interesting.



3. But back to redeeming sides of R1. What about humor? Is that a thing that works for you "on its own self"? I mean, do you find R1 funny at least? (For the record, I find it at times hilarious ).

 

1. Eh...I'm just overly analytical. It has its perks, but it comes with a downside of depressiveness and severe listlessness.

2. Yeah...as I age, I'm more and more sensative to the fact that the overwhelming majority of stories are told from a very 20-year-old lens of thinking. I don't care if your target audience is 20 years old; there's ways to convey older-age provocations of thought into a story targeted at younger ages...humans have done this for thousands and thousands of years. We call them fairy tales and fables.
But...well...we seem rather stuck in the "coming of age" motif and logic on repeat.

3. I laughed a few times. I liked the droid humor, mostly.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Thanks for answering.

Most parts of the topics 1 and 2 was almost impossible to follow because: first, english is just my 3rd language (soon it will be 4th because my french its getting better and I don speak english were I live now) and second you have a different way to analyse a film than I have. I can't go so deep analysing a movie like you do. I can see the general aspects and the overall message (s), catch some cultural references, enjoy the photography and the soundtrack (when its posible) and some other things, maybe...

But I can understand what you meant on topic 3: Rogue One doesn't motivates you for multiples viewings, because ist just grey...aphatetic or frigid. Despite I had enjoyed my two viewings at the cinema I'm not so motivated to watch it for a 3rd time. Same happened with Solo (just watched once) and believe or not with Mandalorian (that probably 100% of SW fans loved). I just can't rewatch the Mandalorian, its a fun ride but at the same time its so grey, frigid or repetitive. It lacks in originality to me. Maybe you have the same feeling with R1.

 

More or less, that will do.

In an attempt at brevity and clarity:
1. It lacks a strong artistic vision.
2. It's not a fun thrill ride, nor is it a deep thinking story. Those are my styles.
3. Pretty much what you said.


p.s.
Congratulations on being multi-lingual!
I am a pitiful monolinguist - that is, a typical American.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Timeless Classics I Never Get Tired of:

The Empire Strikes Back 10/10
Star Wars 10/10

Timeless Classics that are Fun but Somewhat Flawed:

Return of the Jedi 8/10

Good but not Great:

Rogue One 7/10

Not as Bad as I remember them:

Revenge of the Sith 7/10
The Phantom Menace 6/10

Icky but can watch if I don't have any of the above at my disposal:

The Force Awakens 5/10 (gotta say, first twenty minutes I give a solid 8)
Attack of the Clones 5/10

So bland and flawed I don't feel like seeing it again:

Solo 3/10

A betrayal of Star Wars fans who want solid, coherent scripts and good character development, a bridge between VII and IX, and believable characters:

The Last Jedi 2/10

So terrible it makes me wonder how anyone can defend this utter trash, a dire compilation of plot holes and lack of anything resembling a script, oh my god the plotholes, is it even possible.. the worst thing I have ever paid money to watch, a movie that has me lost all interest in any other Disney SW product including the one good thing The Mandalorian and I cannot express enough my utter disgust with this total utter crap even a roll of toilet paper could have done better:

Plan 9 from Outer Space

I kid. It's

The Rise of Skywalker minus10 googolplex/10

 

So yeah. Did this.

Tier 1 - Legitimately great movies
ESB
TLJ
ANH

Tier 2 - Good solid fun nothing special
ROTJ
TFA

Tier 3 - Fine. Whatever. I can sit through it
TPM
ROTS

Tier 4 - A chore to watch and won't do it again if I don't have to
TROS
AOTC

 

this is easy
ATC
RotS
ANH
TPM
ESB
TRoS
TFA
RotJ
TLJ

 

1. Solo
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. A New Hope
5. The Empire Strikes Back
6. Rogue One
7. The Phantom Mence
8. The Rise of Skywalker
9. Attack of the Clones
10. The Force Awakens
11. The Last Jedi
12. The Clone Wars