Luke's screen time theory

It is not at all far fetched when considering the rumors that Han Solo kicks it in this movie, so they make it more about him than Luke or Leia. In my mind, it makes sense both creatively and from a pure business sense.

According to rumors, the plot may involve the next generation, Rey and Ren, who are the children of Han and Leia, taking up the saga adventures. The story apparently involves their estrangement from their family. Han Solo is the oldest of the "legacy" characters. Harrison Ford has lamented the fact that his character had less and less "meat" and development over the saga, hence his belief that his character should have been killed in ROTJ. So, you now have two major character development arcs for Han Solo to explore in TFA: his strained family relations and redemption, as well as his death. And, rumors have it these are inextricably intertwined, which also provides motivation and depth for the new characters going forward. Granted, if the story is radically different from this, there may be some explaining to do... (i.e. none of the characters are related or are actually descended from Luke). But from what we know, this seems as though it is the most likely beat of the story.

From the business side, focusing more on Han Solo in the first of the ST movies also makes good sense when you consider the marketing to general audiences. You simply promote and market your most recognizable and prominent star. Not only that, but a large portion of the fan base, myself included, think Han Solo was just as beloved a character as Luke and actually identified more with him. (When I played with my Star Wars figures as a kid, I always picked Han Solo first, leaving Luke Skywalker to my younger brother... much to his chagrin!)

In any event, I can understand from both a business and creative perspective why TPTB would want Han Solo to be the more prominent legacy character at the beginning of the ST. Now, would I want to have Luke be just as involved? Perhaps, but that would depend on the story... so I would agree with you @Rebo, at least to the extent that I will wait to see the movie before beginning to pass judgment on the rumors we are all contemplating right now.

 

The more I read MSW's plot, the more it feels incredibly incomplete.

Where is the arc? What is the conflict and its subsequent resolution? Where is the transformation of the protagonist?

Several other things aren't sitting right with me either. There is no way Han gets a quick death without saying goodbye to his lives ones. Ford's chops are too good to not have a sentimental goodbye.

I went back and watched ANH again to try and find some semblance of what JJ may reuse as far as plot devices go.

I think MSW has acts 1 and 2. You're probably thinking there is way too many locales for this to only be two acts, but look at the first two acts of ANH.

Space

Tatooine - desert

Death Star

Tatooine - moisture farm

Death Star

Tatooine - Mos Eisley

Death Star

Millennium Falcon

Death Star - hangar

Death Star - detention block

Death Star - hangar

Space

Now look at MSW's locales for what he's got.

Space

Jakku - Star Destroyer graveyard

Kylo Ren's Star Destroyer

Jakku - village

Star Destroyer

Jakku - dessert

Jakku - spaceport

Freighter

Millennium Falcon

Maz castle

Star Destroyer

Maz castle

Starkiller Base

Snow planet

Starkiller Base

Snow Planet

Starkiller Base

Resistance Cruiser

Luke's planet

That could be two acts. For all we know they spend a grand total of ten minutes at Maz's castle, a la the Cantina in Mos Eisley.

Which leaves the third act, which would complete the arc, reveal that Han wasn't killed on the snow planet in act 2, just silenced, give us a classic battle between Luke and Ren, and now Kyle's piece has a place it can fit.

It would also mirror ANH if the First Order allowed Rey to think she'd escaped and lead them right to Luke Skywalker.

 

If anyone at minimum in the cast had final script approval over his role, it was Harrison Ford. A sticking point could have been how many movies the man wanted to do as well. It's been said that the original three had a tacit agreement with George Lucas for their involvement early on when Lucas decided that Episode VII would be a thing.


Timeline of events for pre-production and production for Episode VII / The Force Awakens

http://www.lefigaro.fr/cinema/2013/...vii-harrison-ford-dement-son-grand-retour.php (October 2, 2013)

http://metro.co.uk/2013/10/10/harri...ecided-whether-ill-be-in-star-wars-7-4141725/ (October 10, 2013)

http://nerdist.com/nerdist-podcast-harrison-ford/ (October 30, 2013)

Ford pretends that he can't hear the question when asked if he'll be in more than one new Star Wars movie (May 2014):

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/05/star-wars-the-force-awakens-vanity-fair-cover

 

I see this comment all the time and I have to reply.

He based that summary off a shot list NOT a screen play. None of those things you mentioned would be included In that. There is no dialog or story telling in a shot list. It's just a very very basic description of scenes to be filmed for the production crew to follow.

You can't judge a movies story off a shot list.

 

Thank you @Darth Holmes !

 

I think the story should be the most important and not who is better marketable or has better ranking in polls. It is fine when Han has a good role, but leaving Luke out of the story or sideline him, is just terrible.

 

What the story "should be" is subjective, but it is unrealistic to expect TPTB to not take into consideration the business and marketing side of things. That said, the story and the business aspects are not mutually exclusive... they can both exist together and result in a very good movie. Passing judgment on it based on rumor and speculation at this point is premature. Just my two credits.

 

I think Luke will do all of that, the duel, training etc.

 

Okay. I'm sure this has probably been covered before, and I know better than to get my hopes up by now, but what's the story with this image? Is it real? Fake? Is it Luke? Is it a lightsaber coloring error? Is it someone using Luke's lightsaber? Thoughts?




(I've loved most of the concept art, btw, I think it's all been pretty awesome looking so far)

 

A lot of theories with this one. Some people have the theory that it's not Luke, it's the Rey or Finn character with Luke's lightsaber before it was decided that it should be the blue lightsaber from ESB instead of the green ROTJ lightsaber.
Others have said it is Luke but it's discarded concept art as Luke will only appear at the very end of the movie.

This concept art and the ones with the cyborg are the more taboo concept art out there. Discussion is very polarizing.

 

Placeholder art.

https://thecantina.starwars7news.co...s-news-rumors-thread.153/page-280#post-104386

 

If this is really early concept art, it could show Luke fighting Darth Vader as placeholders for the characters that would eventually be used (such as Rey and Kylo Ren).

Edit: As mentioned in the post above mine. Whoops lol. Two answers for the price of one.

 

it's real concept art. From the MSW info this was turned into Finn and Rey vs kylo and chewie comes in to rescue them.



This is seemingly what was shot

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/current-film-rumors-absolutely-no-discussion.50028227/page-2

 

I know this was from a few days back, but I couldn't resist:

You're right about the Big Three being the cheese, dough, and sauce of the pizza that is Star Wars. BUT Pizza Hut now offers a bunch of new sauces, options on cheese, and crust varieties and flavors . The new characters will be the new options for the pizza, but the classic options (the OT) will always be available .

That being said, I am firmly a believer in Luke having more screen time. I have my reasons, I've stated most of them before, but there's no need to rehash it all right now.

 

This thread is making me hungry...

 

Are you and I the only two who realize that Disney wouldn't pay Mark to be at the shoot so often, if he had only one scene?
That Carrie wouldn't make it seem like the three of them were going to share screen time if Mark had only filmed one scene?
That the shot list probably kept the big surprises off the officially handed-out documents that the crew recieved, or was even meant to leak, for misinformation or red herring?

I feel like I'm the only one that has pieced this together and has any sense. Honestly, who thinks the first and only sequel in 32 years won't have any Luke in it? No lightsaber, no interaction with Han and Leia (particularly with Han supposedly dying), no more than 3 minutes of (mostly indirect flashback-of-younger-Luke) screen time?

All of that talk from KK and JJ about knowing what they're up against, having to deal with the Internet and leaks, and about bringing the old cast together, and about keeping secrets, and yet everybody seems to think we know how the movie is going to go, even the "surprises" and the role of Luke...

I'm not buying it. I think that shot list, amd its correlation with the teasers and BTS videos, is a HUGE red herring, with just enough (insignificant and unimportant) confirmations to convince all of us. What do we *really* have confirmed here, guys? The first fifteen minutes, which is basically just a retelling of archetypal pieces we're familiar with, like the charcter-with-a-conscience who disobeys orders and joins the reistance? How much more do we actually have confirmed? Names, aliens, some concepts? Screenshots and videos of set pieces and characters that seem to coincide with what we think we know?

"Maybe I'm just going crazy", but I think we're much farther off from the actual movie than we think, save for some minor bits and pieces.

(End of rant)

 

But i think you have raised counter points in your own response. if the shot-lists are red herrings (to mislead) what makes luke's absence the only one? Shouldn't all of Han's and Leia's shots in the list, han dying for example, be considered a red-herring?

also regarding the amount of time he spent on set, i think @MagnarTheGreat timeline is a pretty good breakdown
https://thecantina.starwars7news.co...s-screen-time-theory.2500/page-34#post-110251

Just out of curiosity, the big 3, do you think the leia/han spoilers are more accurate and if so what makes them more accurate than the luke ones?

 

I don't see the Han or Leia sides necessarily being any more accurate.

Aside from the Luke part of my post, which I firmly believe, the rest is kinda just speculation, and isn't solid to me one way or the other. I like to discuss possibilities, more than to argue for only one. Exception being Luke.

I see no reason why the Han or Leia side would be any more accurate, and wasn't trying to imply so.

It would be easier to dissect what I think are red herrings, if I knew what was straight from the shot list and what was MSW's speculation.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 21, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 21, 2015 ---

All of that about Hamill's beard, and starting to shoot his scenes later rather than sooner, doesn't mean much. He still had plenty of time to shoot a number of scenes, as is pointed out in the page of this forum, linked to in that post, where the beard discussion took place.