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OFFICIAL NEWS Disney didn’t Use George Lucas’ Ideas for The Force Awakens.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Viral Hide, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. Keri Ford

    Keri Ford Clone Commander

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    Iger quote "Alan Horn and I read George’s outlines and decided we needed to buy them, though we made clear in the purchase agreement that we would not be contractually obligated to adhere to the plot lines he’d laid out."
     
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  2. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Iggy sounds excited here.... I wonder when he realized that his prized treatments had somehow turned to rubbish and they just had to go in a totally new direction? I can't imagine the pressure.
     
  3. Grummgar

    Grummgar Clone

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    I think the biggest mistake in not letting a single person write the whole story arc. In the OT, Lucas only directed one film but he wrote the entire 3 part screenplay and it made for a cohesive story arc as you would imagine.
     
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  4. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    I agree 100%. Plain and simple example:

    The ending to Episode 7 and the intro to Epsiode 8 were so dissimilar that Mark Hamill called JJ to freak out about it. TFA originally concluded with Luke surrounded by floating boulders (to illustrate his mastery of the force) and that did not line up with RJ's disgruntled hermit version of our favorite former moisture farmer. To "correct" the error, the digital effects team went and removed the floating CGI boulders from TFA's final scene.
     
  5. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    First time hearing that? What's the source.
     
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  6. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Mark Hamill.

    'I was led to believe that I still had the Force and it was really strong in me.'

    https://io9.gizmodo.com/mark-hamill-finally-reveals-that-big-change-in-the-forc-1821984464

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...-skywalker-force-awakens-ending-a8155941.html

    ***

    https://www.gamesradar.com/mark-ham...ens-original-ending-and-why-it-had-to-change/

    More from Mark:

    "I said to Ryan, I said, "Jedi's don't give up. I mean even if he had a problem he would maybe take a year to try and regroup, but if he made a mistake he would try and right that wrong." So right there we had a fundamental difference, but it's not my story anymore. It's somebody else's story, and Ryan needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective. That's the crux of my problem. Luke would never say that. I'm sorry. Well in this version, see I'm talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars, so I almost has to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he is Jake Skywalker. He's not my Luke Skywalker, but I had to do what Ryan wanted me to do because it serves the story well, but listen, I still haven't accepted it completely. But it's only a movie. I hope people like it. I hope they don't get upset, and I came to really believe that Ryan was the exact man that they need for this job."

    https://cosmicbook.news/mark-hamill-star-wars-outraged-shocked-tricked-mistake
     
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  7. Veronica

    Veronica Rebel General

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    I wouldn't say that Disney completely jettisoned Lucas ideas. Apparently his idea about the ST involved Anakin's grandkids, twins a boy and a girl. The creators of the ST took this idea and added a twist. They made one a Palpatine and had them become Dyads in the force: ie twins. There is also Rey taking on Anakin's last name, in effect becoming his grandchild.

    No it didn't. Luke and Leia french kissing in ESB and then being brother and sister in TROJ is in no way cohesive and just speaks to a poorly thought out story. If the film had been made today, it would have been made into a joke.
     
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  8. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Rebel Official

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    Nope, sorry. While the original Star Wars was written by Lucas, he had some assistance from editing the lines/tightening the dialogue from the Hykes, I believe. Lawrence Kasdan (who also helped mostly to write Raiders of the Lost Ark) assisted with editing some of the lines in Empire (a part of Yoda's description of the difference of the dark side from the light side, for instance- it was made more concise). Kasdan also helped with abridging or making other sections of dialogue more concise in Jedi as well.

    In addition, Kasdan, as well as Marquand, the director of Return of the Jedi, had key parts in developing parts of the plot in Return of the Jedi. Kasdan suggested to make Luke's plan multi-layered, while Marquand or Kasdan suggested or tried to find a suitable reason for Leia donning the bikini suit. Also, in Jedi, Lucas and Kasdan were alternating the scripts around the time of the second draft, at least: Lucas would write out the plot, Kasdan would edit or write the plot so more, and then pass the script back to Lucas, who would write out the plot some more and edit, and then pass it to Kasdan, who would write out the plot and edit some more.
     
    #308 The Birdwatcher, Aug 23, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
  9. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    No doubt that Lucas had collaborative help with writing the OT, but I think the point is more about macro vision/arc.

    Lucas eventually turned the PT/OT into a story arc concerning Anakin/Palpatine and eventually Luke that all culminates in ROTJ. Yes there are plot holes cause Lucas was making it up as it went on (Luke/Leia kissing and than becoming siblings) but HE finally decided he wanted the 1-6 Saga to be about Father/Son and redemption.

    That is what is missing in the ST as there is no cohesive macro arc/theme as to why 7,8,9 should exist next to 1-6. I say this as a fan of the ST as I enjoy the movies. But that overall vision/arc of the ST is the one thing that is severely lacking when you watch them now.
     
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  10. Jaimz the Jedi

    Jaimz the Jedi Rebel General

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    I personally hate how Rian Johnson used inception on George Lucas during a story briefing at Skywalker Ranch in January 2013 (Rian Johnson was hired by Disney/Lucasfilm in June 2014) and forced him to pitch the idea of Luke being in self-imposed exile on a remote planet, haunted by the betrayal of one of his students, spiritually in a dark place and reluctant to train a new female Padawan. How dare you Rian!
     
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  11. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Rebel Official

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    Thanks for replying!

    I guess I can't look at Star Wars the same way after learning of its origins and where characters came from and how they transitioned over time, especially how it seems blasphemous in respect to other characters.

    There wasn't really a cohesive/macro arc in the OT. Empire was a sequel, a la the adventures continues of the original with Again, the PT worked as an arc because Lucas had planned it out, and I believe (in a 1980 Time magazine?) showed the outlines of it. Even then, the origins of the Emperor possibly being manipulated by his other staff seems shoved to the side, with the emphasis being that the Emperor was the sole person behind everything. Also, the Emperor was presumably not a force user.

    And then, ROTJ. Oh boy, ROTJ. Well, I guess redemption was fine for Vader's character, but the rough drafts (in particular, the rough draft summary of Feb. 1981) handle it better, with Vader's motivation for power or legacy with Luke. Vader is even willing to let Luke kill him when the Emperor wants Luke to kill him, so that Luke receives half of the Empire with the Emperor. But Luke refuses to kill him because he states that there is still some good in him (not since Luke is becoming without compassion, like Vader, in the film), and even tosses back a lightsaber to Vader. Vader reluctantly tries to strikes Luke down (because he cares about Luke), which infuriates the Emperor, leading to the Emperor eletrocuting Luke.

    Return emphasizes the dramatic emphasis of will Vader turn or won't he?- with Vader tentatively watching Luke be tortured to death. The lack of care here from Vader is disturbing, imo, even though it wasn't supposed to be in the film, but Marquand wanted to show Vader making the decision.

    The Emperor in the rough draft isn't aware of his demise until the last second, when he realizes that Obi-wan has been shielding his mind from foreseeing his ending from Vader, who football-tackles him into the pit of lava. In the film, it's a split-second decision from Vader, but even then, it makes the Emperor Luke doesn't forcefully In the finished product, there is an emphasis on Luke "saving" Vader, whereas the rough draft doesn't emphasize it.

    (I think that ROTJ Palpatine is potentially a rip-off of TESB Vader, with some possible Tarkin thrown in, if one looks at his role).

    Both 7 and 8 are the The Empire Strikes Back on steroids. It's happy ending (A New Hope's "freedom to the galaxy" line presumably fulfilled by the medal ceremony)? Wrong (TESB showing with its dreadnaughts, the galaxy's cowardice towards fighting back, and the lack of supports and the current location of the rebel base, that the destruction of the battle station didn't allow the systems to be freed from fear of the empire). In 7's case, it's the thingy-ma-bob (Starkiller Base) utilized from a neo-Empire, an Empire on retaliation again, is used to dismantle the government of the New Republic, not necessarily to keep the systems in line, although it does that, too. Anyway, the thingy-ma-bob is destroyed, and the First Order sends out its large dreadnaughts to subdue the systems and keep fear in line. Also, the systems don't help anyone, like in Empire.

    In the case of 9, well... ROTJ happened again. Fan/cast reaction with a rushed time slot contributed to changes in the film. Rehash of the first part of the trilogy happens.
     
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  12. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    Star Wars: Darth Maul Was Original Sequel Trilogy Villain, Reveals George Lucas - IGN
    See also: [QUOTES] George Lucas
     
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  13. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    More:

    George Lucas: "I had planned for the first trilogy to be about the father, the second trilogy to be about the son, and the third trilogy to be about the daughter and the grandchildren. Episode VII, VIII, and IX would take ideas from what happened after the Iraq War. 'Okay, you fought the war, you killed everybody, now what are you going to do?' Rebuilding afterwards is harder than starting a rebellion or fighting the war. When you win the war and you disband the opposing army, what do they do? The stormtroopers would be like Saddam Hussein's Ba'athist fighters that joined ISIS and kept on fighting. The stormtroopers refuse to give up when the Republic win. They want to be stormtroopers forever, so they go to a far corner of the galaxy, start their own country and their own rebellion. There's a power vacuum so gangsters, like the Hutts, are taking advantage of the situation, and there is chaos. The key person is Darth Maul, who had been resurrected in The Clone Wars cartoons—he brings all the gangs together."
     
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  14. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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  15. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    Dyad twins don't make sense due to the big age difference, brother and sister in the force but not twins. Basically Rian threw it out the window. JJ had mystery boxes that could of gone anywhere, Rian ignored them.
     
  16. Veronica

    Veronica Rebel General

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    Sorry I don't follow. My understanding is that a force dyad has to do with abilities. I can not find anything that says they have to be the same age or have some other physical characteristics.
     
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  17. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    Not big on Maul but they blew it so hard on Snoke (and his replacements) in the DT that I could entertain it as at least no worse. I generally like most of what he talks about in the new book that I've seen floating around out there. Lucas is an ideas man, they haven't all landed over the years but I appreciate that he tries. The DT felt kind of thoughtless intentionally or unintentionally because they kept altering direction one movie at time to a fatal degree.
     
    #317 MagnarTheGreat, Nov 11, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
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  18. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I think Maul as the villain would have been confusing but awesome. It completely fit with his character in TCW and Rebels. Maul was alwasy searching for a new apprentice in those series. He was always looking for a way to beat Palpatine. By Rebels he had given up his Sith identity. Maybe had he survived, he could have made his way back to Malachor and found a different temple to unlock secrets from. Snoke's line about how he saw Vader rise and fall would make so much more sense, as would his flair for the dramatic. Maul would absolutely be the type of person to seduce Ben to the Dark Side. Heck, I'm pretty sure there were some theories pre-TFA about Snoke being Maul! (...along with him being virtually everyone else too...)

    If they went with the Rey Kenobi bloodline, it'd be an even bigger middle finger to Maul. He was killed twice by either by someone named "Ben" or someone in the Kenobi family.

    Would this have been better than Snoke being Plagueis? I'm honestly not sure. They'd read as two separate characters, themes, and messages in my head, and I can't reconcile that.* But it would have been pretty cool if done well.

    *I think it's the fact that Snoke dying in TLJ works better for Plagueis than it would for Maul. If Snoke was Maul, I'd want him to die in Ep IX by a Kenobi, mirroring his defeat in Ep 1 by a Kenobi.
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Huh?
    The dyad concept wasn't really a part of the original story. If JJ wanted this included then he should have actually included it and not just mystery boxed the hell out of everything.


    You can't say Rian ignored anything when saying it's all about the mystery boxes. That's literally the point of the mystery box. It can be anything. Rian's choices line up with what was presented in TFA.
     
  20. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    I don't quite understand how force abilities make people twins either. That makes no sense. Besides we never see Kylo use force lightning either.




    Am pretty sure also in original TFA scripts it was noticed that big bad was originally female, was it not? Am not sure why the flipped it back to Snoke. Also the original art work for Snoke was a snake in a kamono and it looked adorably cute lol

    [​IMG]

    Also just thinking about that. She healed one in TROS

    [​IMG]

    Snoke says she has the spirit of a true Jedi

    [​IMG]

    Maybe Rey was always meant heal a snake LMAO. She even calls Kylo one :p
     
    #320 p03, Nov 11, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
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