1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

"Fixing" Padme's Fate

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by cawatrooper, Aug 24, 2020.

  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    17,314
    Trophy Points:
    145,167
    Credits:
    16,841
    Ratings:
    +21,418 / 62 / -37
    A lot has been made of Leia's account of her mother in ROTJ. Furthermore, recent events in the Bounty Hunters comic line have once again showed how badly Star Wars treats its women as plot devices.

    I think Padme is great in the prequels, but perhaps there's a way that both of these issues could've been addressed?

    Imagine if Padme had survived the birth of the twins- she reluctantly went to live with the Organas on Alderaan while Luke was sent with Kenobi to live with Anakin's in-laws.

    Then, a few years later, she and Vader have a confrontation in a sort of epilogue of the prequels. Either Vader has entered the Organa estate, or perhaps Padme Vader, having believed Padme is even working with early Rebel cells (as we'll eventually see Leia do too). Vader, taken aback at her appearance having been told she was dead by Palpatine, finds himself at a disadvantage. In the conflict, Padme realizes that Vader's (she knows it's Anakin) obsession with her is relentless and concludes that the only way to end this is for him to believe her dead again. She somehow tricks Vader and his assault force to thinking that Padme is once again killed in the conflict, causing Vader to further move to the dark, sparking further distrust in the Emperor, and going absolutely ham on the stormtroopers involved.

    Meanwhile, Padme's trick having worked, she sneaks off leaving her child in the safe hands of the Organas while she vows to work in the shadows against the Empire- preserving her for future stories.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 5
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
  2. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2020
    Posts:
    502
    Likes Received:
    1,975
    Trophy Points:
    5,967
    Credits:
    1,823
    Ratings:
    +2,297 / 8 / -4
    Clone Wars does a decent job with that, but it is still in between the prequels, where padme is an airhead, and an object for pervy anakin.
    The problem is, that in Phantom Menace, she seems somewhat intelligent, but once she gets with Anakin, we question how she ever became a senator. Again, clone wars solves some of this, she is intelligent, her relationship with anakin feels genuine, but she is not afraid to start mowing down fools with her blaster. This would be well and good, but i would say padme is the hardest character to fix in the prequels.. Obi Wan is good, Mace Windu is an Peedunky, Yoda is all warlike, but they could have fixed that. Clones have no personality, and that is fixed. Anakin is going through puberty or something during attack of the clones, so we can excuse his behavior, and in revenge of the sith, he is taken up by the dark side and by weird lucas relationship dialogue, so he can be easy to fix. However, Padme is so dumb in the prequels that it can be really hard to fix her, as any attempt in the clone wars is just rendered null.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 24, 2020 ---
    what is a peedunky i wonder
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
  3. rogue_leader1

    rogue_leader1 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Posts:
    68
    Likes Received:
    1,948
    Trophy Points:
    4,982
    Credits:
    1,573
    Ratings:
    +2,003 / 0 / -0
    This sounds like a fanfic I want to read.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    4,631
    Trophy Points:
    13,467
    Credits:
    6,197
    Ratings:
    +5,547 / 23 / -9
    I really like it! I do worry that having her around for too long turns her situation into a "out of sight, out of mind" thing with her children, but I'm sure there's a clever workaround...please let someone clever write the workaround.

    My own fix would have taken place during the third and final Kenobi movie - the plot of the second and third would involve Luke & Leia being kidnapped by smugglers with ties to Mandalore*, giving Obi-Wan the reason to leave Tatooine. He gathers a few friends along the way and goes off to find them.** In the third movie Luke & Leia would wake up and would have to help each other escape. Leia is guided by the ghost of Padme while Luke is guided by a different force (no idea just yet). Both of them would have their minds wiped by the end, but even then The Force will keep what it needs to keep. (This retcons Luke and Leia's meeting and overall feelings during the OT, yes, but I also think it helps refit their "surprise" as well.)

    This doesn't fully fix the problem, but I was trying to work within Canon knowledge. If we had a chance to overturn her death and fate, yeah, your path is by far the better one.



    *Now that I think about it, maybe they can be linked to the group The Mandalorian is from, providing a sort of grey morality for our (second) favorite bounty hunter. Originally it was going to be Maul's group. He's using the Crimson Dawn for human/life-form trafficking, but every so often he'll find a Force Sensitive child.
    **I was going for a Seven Samurai/13 Assassins sort of feel here. The composition would have been: Obi-Wan, Siri Tachi (now an Inquisitor), Quinlan Vos (now a smuggler/bounty hunter), Annileen Calwell from the Kenobi book (and Obi-Wan's new love interest), Owen Lars, Bo-Katan, and a very remorseful Cody.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  5. Prequelfan93

    Prequelfan93 Clone

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2020
    Posts:
    20
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    12
    Credits:
    124
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -1
    I think what should have happened if George wanted to tie everything together Padme should have survived and raised Leia in secret for a few years and then died of a broken heart and then Leia could have been handed down to the Organas.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  6. Jaimz the Jedi

    Jaimz the Jedi Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    May 17, 2020
    Posts:
    108
    Likes Received:
    449
    Trophy Points:
    2,977
    Credits:
    452
    Ratings:
    +545 / 5 / -1
    My personal preference for a “fix” would have been to make Padme another Jedi apprentice and merge her character with Ahsoka. Would have given Natalie Portman a lot more to work with and would have made her more than just a walking uterus, with little to no characterisation.

    Get rid of the whole “Anakin was the chosen one” proficiency nonsense (Star Wars isn’t Buffy the Vampire Slayer). Luke & Leia would have just been so powerful in the force because both of their parents were Jedi (which would be rare as “attachments are forbidden”).

    Then it would have made sense for her to go into hiding on Alderaan after Order 66, give Leia to Bail Organa and his wife and watch over her from afar (while still being part of Leia’s early life, same as the Luke/Obi-Wan)
     
    • Cool Cool x 1
  7. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    17,314
    Trophy Points:
    145,167
    Credits:
    16,841
    Ratings:
    +21,418 / 62 / -37
    That's really the kind of thing I'm trying to avoid with this, though.

    Aside from how ridiculously unscientific "she lost the will to live" is, it also plays pretty heavily into misogynistic tropes.
    Padme's literal existence shouldn't hinge on how much Anakin loves her.

    edit: I'm absolutely not saying that's what you intended here, just that I'd personally rather it not go that route as I see some problems with it.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  8. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Posts:
    21,351
    Likes Received:
    92,771
    Trophy Points:
    176,317
    Credits:
    43,033
    Ratings:
    +106,423 / 338 / -131
    Her fate was set & doesn't need changing. The broken heart journey was the best way for time in the galaxy to end.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend
    1030th Captain ** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Posts:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    31,634
    Trophy Points:
    152,752
    Credits:
    30,157
    Ratings:
    +33,807 / 6 / -5
    I still like the idea that actually Palpatine took the energy from Padme to reanimate Vader and that's the why she died. The droid just couldn't find a better explanation than She lost her will to live.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Original Original x 1
  10. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    1,846
    Likes Received:
    68,462
    Trophy Points:
    169,727
    Credits:
    40,317
    Ratings:
    +71,607 / 15 / -4
    Great thread!

    I would have liked her to have a role in the further events and not have her die of a broken heart right after she gave birth to Leia and Luke.

    Yeah, that's what I imagined when I grew up with the OT !
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  11. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,426
    Likes Received:
    98,714
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    53,122
    Ratings:
    +106,518 / 161 / -32
    Dying because of a broken heart is quite possible, just look at Carrie Fisher's mother- Debbie Reynolds. But yeah, for Star Wars it was silly.

    Same here. I remember before AOTC hit theaters I thought we would see the rise of Vader in that very movie (thanks to the misleading teaser trailer). I would have loved to have Leia and Luke in this movie. When Anakin fell to the dark side (at the end of AOTC or the beginning of ROTS) the kids had to be seperated.

    In EPIII Padme's story would be: running/escaping (but also fighting of course) from Vader and the Empire. I think it would have been interesting if Vader and Padme met. I kinda imagine it like the encounter between Ahsoka and Vader.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    17,314
    Trophy Points:
    145,167
    Credits:
    16,841
    Ratings:
    +21,418 / 62 / -37

    I don't want to get too into this real life example, but Debbie was 84 years old and suffered what was likely a stress induced stroke.

    Padme was in her twenties, and seemingly healthy.

    And really, that's probably the more minor thing I take issue with. There's the bigger "plot hole" of Leia's memories- something I've always been willing to look past as a fan, though nonetheless acutely aware of how it's rather silly.

    And probably most importantly, how it plays into potentially damaging tropes of femininity, motherhood, and women's "roles" in relationships.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2019
    Posts:
    460
    Likes Received:
    11,526
    Trophy Points:
    90,267
    Credits:
    4,845
    Ratings:
    +12,254 / 1 / -0
    Same here. After the events Ep IX where we see draining of life-force on-screen (and who did it!), that theory feels even more on-point to me. It’d simply be joining the dots of being able to transfer spirits/matter across space with the draining of life-force, and there you go... . Unless canon material rules it out, it’s my working head-canon of part of how Padmé died.

    Even without that though, I’ve never had a big problem with how Padme died. The droid says it’s for reasons they can’t explain, and they don’t know why she is dying. At that point, complaining about the ‘broken heart’ or ‘will to live’ stuff is not necessary - if you don’t like either of those things you can safely disregard them as sayings and nothing more (alternatively you can interpret them as being more literal causes for death too, if you like). I happen to think losing the will to live and/or dying of a broken heart would be perfectly ok reasons anyway. Arguing about whether it can happen in real life (it can) is irrelevant really, she was Force-choked unconscious not too long before and that’s not something that can happen in real life! It’s a space fantasy!

    I’ve also always found the phrase used, ‘the will to live’ quite interesting. Qui-Gon tells Anakin in TPM that the midi-chlorians speak to us and tell us the will of the Force. It’s as though Padmé had to choose to will her children to live, or survive herself, a tragic but selfless act compared to Anakin, who selfishly killed even younglings in the misguided belief he could save Padmé through accumulating power (a lesson he finally un-learns when he sacrifices himself to save Luke, and by extension Leia in RotJ). Side-note: I think the way Leia ‘hangs on’ for Ben in TRoS is a beautiful echo/progression of the way Padmé remains alive just long enough to give birth to Luke and Leia herself.

    I think I read originally Padmé was going to have a bit more to do in terms of politics etc, but it was cut for time, but you still get the bare bones... I would disagree with those saying she is stupid, the “so this is how liberty dies” moment surely marks her out as one of the brighter people in the room... and she was even smart enough to resist her feelings for Anakin until she thought they were about to die in the Geonosian arena. Maybe it’s fair to say falling in love with Anakin didn’t turn out to be the cleverest thing to do, but you can’t help who you fall for... that whole conflict between intelligence/duty/emotions/attachment (and much more) is a crazy-interesting bundle of issues the movies give us to un-knot.

    As for the Leia remembering her mother bit, that’s never bothered me either. Leia is Force Sensitive, and had a different Jedi path to Luke. Even in the OT, Leia’s big Force moments are sensing Luke from far away. Yoda tells Luke that through the Force he will see things, which is how he knows he must go to Cloud City. So I have zero issue that Leia remembers images and feelings of Padmé. I think it’s beautiful actually. It also makes me think about the way different people reacted to Leia ‘flying’ to safety in TLJ - some rejected it as silly, others (like me) thought it was magnificently beautiful. I’d love to see a Venn diagram of people who have each opinion on the two things - Leia remembering Padmé / the way Leia uses the Force in that scene in TLJ, as I suspect the overlapping area might be quite small - my suspicion is it has a lot to do with how people see the Force and how differently people think it can or should be able to manifest in different users differently.

    Obviously I favour my own perspective on that, but I’m not saying anyone else is wrong to feel differently - though I would point out that feeling differently is rather my point ;)

    I wrote a lot more here than I thought I would, that’ll teach me for starting ‘Same here’ and not leaving it there I guess. :D
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  14. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Posts:
    216
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    747
    Credits:
    548
    Ratings:
    +413 / 12 / -5
    Imagine Palpatine having Kamino clone Padme just to torment Vader....
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Posts:
    216
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    747
    Credits:
    548
    Ratings:
    +413 / 12 / -5
    On a serious note had Padme survived EPIII and raised the twins in secrecy.
    She would have need "Jedi protection" due to their importance as they grow up which would have made them targets.
    Besides, its possible Padme becomes overly protective after having seen enough violence and heartbreak that she might refused
    the twins to lean the "family business".

    Padme dying is only way to explain the twins being separated because no mother would agree to voluntarily separate them.
    Otherwise its makes the Jedi look like kidnappers.
     
  16. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Posts:
    848
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    1,436
    Ratings:
    +2,088 / 104 / -32
    Padme's death is fine... especially if you consider the very real possibility that she and Anakin shared a dyadic connection through the Force and that her taking her last actual breath as he took his first mechanical one represents something more than just metaphor.
     
  17. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,026
    Likes Received:
    4,994
    Trophy Points:
    13,017
    Credits:
    5,041
    Ratings:
    +7,581 / 33 / -9
    Yeah, it would be pretty problematic if the Jedi went around the galaxy taking infants from their parents and forcefully raising them in their weird cult of nonattachment . . . . . . . <cough cough>
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  18. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2018
    Posts:
    216
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    747
    Credits:
    548
    Ratings:
    +413 / 12 / -5
    Yeah I know sounds horrible... am just glad it never happened. ;)
     
    • Cute Cute x 1
Loading...

Share This Page