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Force ghosts in the new canon

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by heatersintheocean, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. heatersintheocean

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    People have been bouncing ideas around what they think force ghosts can do in the Disney canon, so I wanted to gather all those thoughts into one thread. Now that we've seen Yoda throw lightening down, what do you think force ghosts can do? In another thread I posted that they probably can't interact with the physical environment but they 1) Appear in another a living being's consciousness depending on how much the living being is willing to let them in, and 2) Control natural disasters and events. For 2), I'm suggesting that Luke can appear on the battlefield and not fight, but possibly summon a storm or earthquake. In fact force ghosts may have been influencing the tide of battle all along, where evil ghosts fight good ghosts when it's dark vs light side, it's just that people couldn't see them (yes, only Jedi have become force ghosts so far, but perhaps the Sith found a different way to live on in a different realm after death, hinting at Snoke's possible return.)

    Then I thought of a third option: What if force ghosts could influence a living being's powers or mind? The closest thing we saw to this was how Snoke was able to influence Ben from far away. Now Snoke was alive when he did this, but there's no reason to assume Force ghosts can't do this, or even be more powerful than this. Luke heard Obi Wan in ANH, and we assumed that he was able to use the Force to blow up the Death Star. While it's clear Luke definitely used the Force, did Obi Wan also give him a temporary power boost? When Snoke says "there's been an awakening", could that also have referred to certain force ghosts choosing which living beings they wanted to latch onto and guide? It could be possible that Luke (young and old), Ben, Rey and Snoke have been influenced by force ghosts this entire time and they aren't aware of it.

    The new movies may not explore all these possible new abilities, but spin-offs and books can do so.
     
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  2. Septumus

    Septumus Rebelscum

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    What your describing sounds like what the ancient Greeks used to believe about Zeus and Hades and all their other gods. I hope the next step in this progression is not a worship to Yoda or Obi-Wan to be enhanced be their divine force abilities.
     
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  3. Josh

    Josh Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Official

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    Now that TROS is out, we know force ghosts can:

    Speak to the living without being seen (Obi Wan to Luke in ANH; Qui Gon to Yoda in AOTC?, or to Anakin?; Multiple Jedi to Rey in TROS)
    Appear to (and speak to) the living in a floaty way (Obi Wan to Luke in TESB; Luke and Leia in TROS)
    Appear and speak to the living looking more solid (Obi Wan to Luke in ROTJ; Luke to Rey in TROS)
    Interact with the physical world (Obi Wan moves vines, sits on a log in ROTJ; Yoda calls down lightning in TLJ; Luke catches lightsaber in TROS)

    Did I miss anything?

    Considering that force ghosts can physically interact with the world and be anywhere, what is the downside of dying for a Jedi? Also, why don't they get involved to help defeat evile? Why did Obi Wan say that he couldn't interfere? Says whom? Seems like he had already interfered. Luke interfered by catching the saber. With only one saber, Rey and Ben's scenes at the end of TROS play out much differently.
     
  5. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

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    Someone expressed the idea, that forceghost probably can't do much (maybe besides talking in your head) close to a darkside user.
    I don't know much of EU but for the movies alone that could work.
     
  6. GingerByte

    GingerByte Simple Man

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    TLJ visual dictionary said Anakin stopped appearing to Luke after he closed himself off from the force, and Yoda only reappeared after Luke had opened himself up to it again, so the living can tell those ghosts to stuff it :D.
     
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  7. Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi

    Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi Rebel Official

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    I’m sad that Anakin Skywalker had only one line in this trilogy. The saga was his growth, fall, and redemption. The ST seems to forget this.
     
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  8. DarthRick

    DarthRick Rebel Trooper

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    Touching things is not new to Canon. Obi Wan and Yoda both did in ROTJ. Yoda is sitting on the Fence and Obi Wan pushed the bouhts aside

    I think what Force Ghost can do pretends on the location. Anch -To and Dagobah are both strong with the Force so the Ghost can do a lot.
    On Hoth Obi Wan is hardly visible.
    Endor ist strong in the force too, after the Emperor (first time) and Vader died in the Orbit
     
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  9. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    This. This is how I feel too- his story got cast to the side in favour of making it a Palpatine Show. Ugh.
     
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  10. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    If there are any fans of Evangelion (to me Evangelion is somewhat overrated and Serial Experiments Lain did the whole metaphysical thing better), here is something funny.


    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 16, 2020 ---
    As the Force is basically the metaphysical energy generated by living things, it may be that the more life a planet has, the more of this energy a ghost can use to sustain itself. Kind of like a battery.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 16, 2020 ---
    I initially felt the same when Dio died in Phantom Blood only to reappear in Stardust Crusaders and when the son of DIO was the protagonist of Golden Wind. That and when his groupie Pucci got DIO's children and worked to achieve Heaven and create a new universe in his image in Stone Ocean. I thought:
    • My favourite characters are dead.
    • What will happen now?
    • Will DIO constantly appear throughout the series?
     
    #10 Phil J, Feb 16, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2020
  11. Klabauter

    Klabauter Clone Trooper

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    That's the thing I never get when fans try to "fix" Episode IX with force ghost appearing etc. It has been established in Canon (old G/T-canon as well as canon, now) that the abilities of a force ghost depend on the location, too. Therefore it is no problem, that they can interact with the physical world and it also shows that there is a huge difference to being alive and being dead as a Jedi in the Star Wars Universe. Alive you can use your full power wherever you are, wheras as a force ghost you are very limited by your surroundings, can be shut out by others etc.
     
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  12. Matt_T

    Matt_T Rebel General

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    I always thought only the Jedi they were appearing to could see the ghosts. Almost like they were appearing to that Jedi through the Jedi's mind. For instance, in ROTJ Luke sees the three Force ghosts .... but it doesn't seem anyone else does, including Leia, who takes him by the arm and pays no mind to Anakin, Yoda & Obi Wan standing there.

    Obviously, that doesn't explain physical interactions with the natural world (Yoda & Luke in the ST). I've just believed the film makers mistakenly crossed a line there. Something they should not have done, but didn't know or care. (I'd assume the story group would be consulted on stuff like this, so who knows if they gave the all clear to expand a Force ghosts' powers for the ST.)
     
  13. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebelscum

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    there seems to be an extent to which the Force Ghost can interact with the mortal world. Yoda with the lightning bolt may just be seen by others as a freak incident.

    Luke catching the saber or levitating the X-wing is less explainable in how it’d appear to onlookers. however, we also have Yoda’s little arc in The Lost Missions of The Clone Wars. In that, Qui-gon’s voice speaks to him, and I believe he levitates the things around Yoda. perhaps that’s the precedent for Luke’s ghost in TRoS?
     
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  14. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I might also add that a Force Ghost, by definition, wouldn't necessarily interfere beyond their bounds.

    Like, could Yoda have Force Ghosted up to Snoke's ship and electrocuted the guy, ending the First Order?

    [​IMG]

    But would he? That just seems so... un-Jedi like. Surely Yoda was wise enough to know that the galaxy would be better off if things were to come to pass more... for lack of a better word, "naturally".

    And when you think about it, Force Ghosts even in old canon had some bounds that, at least as far as I know, seem self-imposed.

    For instance, as far as I know Kenobi being part of the all living Force wouldn't be tied down to a location or even a person (like Luke), right? And he could communicate with Luke, so... well, the Rebel Alliance just got itself an unprecedented spy! Someone that can be everywhere or anywhere at all times, feeding information directly into the ear of the hero of the Rebellion. The trap at Endor, the assault on Hoth, Vader's ruse at Bespin, etc... all these things no longer need to apply! Heck, he could even scout out individual planets to hide on, find weak links in Imperial leadership, and... well, since we can assume he could show himself to more than just Luke (I think?) he could act as an unkillable ambassador to planets in gaining sympathy for the Rebellion. Honestly, on a galactic scale, it's a boon perhaps even more valuable than an unkillable lightning guy.
     
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  15. Matt_T

    Matt_T Rebel General

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    I didn't remember the Qui Gon/Yoda situation. I dunno!
     
  16. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Attuned

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    Not sure if it's worth replying to a 10 month old post but I just don't agree with this. Even though Anakin has minimal physical presence in the ST, he's still a massive part of it in that... it quite literally couldn't happen without him. The things that happen in the ST are a direct result of his redemption and if it's to be believed that the Sith have finally been defeated, he played a major role in that happening.

    As for an on-topic reply to the thread, I treat Force ghosts the same way I treat the Force in general. Even if I see something that doesn't seem right to me, it is right because it's the Force. It can't be contained or put into a box. It's evolving, it's not a consistent thing, that's the magic of it.
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    The ST is/was mostly about the legacy and fall out of Anakin's actions.
    His turn facillitated the rise of Palpatine and destruction of the Jedi in the PT.
    His reign and redemption are the core of the OT.
    And with one glaring issue*, his legacy is the context behind the ST protagonists.

    *this is a huge reason why I hated bringing Palpatine back in the way they did. It was no longer about Kylo's relationship with his family and grandfather specifically. It was about Palpatine.

    The ST, specifically TLJ, deals with a lot of the same themes and elements as the PT did but wrapped differently. Luke on explaining why the Jedi suck to Rey is basically recapping the PT even with a minor midichloiran reference. Aesthetically, yes they obviously wanted to tie back into the OT, which is what draws up the most SW nostalgia.

    As for the Force...it has always been able to do whatever the author needs it to do. It has no definition on what it can or can't do.
    Witwer and FPJr (I believe) have both said people too often consider to be like a magic system in an RPG where you have levels to gain in order to do things which just isn't true and not how Lucas wrote it.
     
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  18. Luke556

    Luke556 Clone

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    Force ghost are capable of doing almost anything now, as we've seen in TLJ.

    I believe though that force users or people for that matter reach some higher level of existence after death. Even though they could influence things, they don't because they see the will of the force in its entirety. They choose to stand back even in situations of life and death.

    Reality might just be a video game to them at that point. Using their powers could be seen as hacking a game.
     
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