Full ST Backstory Theory

Darth Sidious name is derived from word Insidious : meaning- .stealthy, subtle, surreptitious, sneaking, cunning, crafty, Machiavellian, artful, guileful, sly, wily, tricky, slick, deceitful, deceptive, dishonest, underhand, backhanded, indirect.

Darth Sidious name creation was a touch of genius we should agree as it perfectly defines Palpatine.

Knowing that Lucas has used such genial and meticulously picked names for his Sith Lords , I always wandered why did he created name Darth Plagueis?.

Plague means deadly disease that spreads from body to body, difficult to eradicate entirely, long lasting and recurring, even can addapt, mutate and became even more infectious.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 8, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 8, 2017 ---

Darth Plagueis, the Wise, is the only Sith Lord ever mentioned in the Star Wars film that is not shown in the film, yes you noted this extraordinary fact well.

 

IMO, Palpatine used the story to draw Anakin to the darkside. He knew what happened to Shimi and Anakin wanting to be able the stop those he loved from dying. His story of DP was a great temptation for Anakin in luring him to the darkside. Anakin was very well manipulated by Palpatine here. Was Palpatine being truthful or lying about DP just to manipulate him? I think that is left up to interpretation. But within that story, DP never cheated death. He kept other from dying but not himself. Ironic, isn't. But in all honesty, Anakin did learn to keep the ones he loved from dying.... through self-sacrifice.

So very true, to me it is in reference to evil.... but every time the word "plague" or the adjective "wise" is used in GFFA, it isn't a reference to DP.

 

I tend to agree but Sidious could be lying.

By who? This certainly is never said out right in the film. Sidious seemed to want power. He told Vader they would work on it. Then I have yet to see were they did.

This isn't in question. No one is denying it.

NO! Unequivocally the fact is the Force created him. Now the Force created the chosen one in response to imbalance. But it was the Force.

 

I ment in a way Sidious used Plagues charisma to lure Anakin to the Dark side, such Snoke(Plags in disguise) would consider Vader indeed his own legacy to.
nevermind.

 

Fair enough. I thought you were implying that DP was his direct creator.

The theater scene is one of the best scenes in the saga.

 

Yap. Ep III. theater scene is probabaly most revealing scene in entire saga next to " I am your father" scene from ep V.

For the first time (and in fact only) Palpatine has presented a Dark Side subtleties. It also told , despite in that moment it looked as obvious Palpatine's bias, that something was wrong with the Jedi . We now know this in fact was true.

 

I'm not sold on the initial backstory post as certain points, such as the Rey Skywalker idea which requires too much exposition to make it catchy or fun for an audience. and also the fall of Ben Solo is written too closely to the fall of Anakin Skywalker and it doesn't match up with the on screen depiction of Kylo Ren. no where is it evident that he wanted to get more powerful so that he could protect people. that was Anakins temptation. I think Kylo Ren's is much more along the lines of a fanatic or zelot.

and that leads nicely into the current Snoke/is he smoke and mirrors/ is he all powerful.

He must have some power, or else he couldn't have influenced Ben Solo while he was young.

However Snoke has been Kylo Ren's master and 'mentor' for ten years by the time TFA starts, and I would say that it doesn't seem like he's taught Kylo Ren very much. Considering we know Ben Solo was already a jedi apprentice to Luke Skywalker before he turned. and we can see Kylo Ren's hand made shoddy lightsaber and mask...his force powers reflect his light saber which in turn reflect himself. Theres a lot of raw power is his use of the force, the foli sounds that accompany it are animal's roaring and fire/electrical noises if I remeber right, different from Rey's force foli sounds.

But he's not refined, hes not well 'trained' as a lightsaber combatant or as a forceuser. Luke had some training from Yoda, grasped some basics, then in the gap between ESB and ROTJ Luke became a jedi. fully fledged.

Kylo Ren has potentially been training 20 years. 10 with Luke, and certainly 10 years since under Snokes guidance. yet he's still considered an untrained apprentice at age 30.

so when Snoke says 'bring me Kylo Ren, its time to finish his training' I take that to mean, Snoke's been holding back a lot from Ren. not dishing out the actual nuance of the dark side.

and I'd think that Snoke would only hold back on fully training Ren because he's afraid of a Vader/Emperor style face off between them some time...which means, Snoke fears Kylo Ren getting strong enough to best him. that doesn't sound like an all powerful force user, sounds like someone clinging to the power they have. but not someone 'unrivalled' in force prowess.

Also Snokes hidden location, is an indication of him being scared.
And Snoke is terrified of Luke Skywalker. and at no point in the TFA film does he even hint at the idea of fighting Luke or even finding Luke....all Snoke asks for in the film is that the map doesn't get into Leia's hands.

any idea of a show down between Luke/ Kylo Ren is all Kylo Ren's idea. Snoke doesn't want to find Luke, he doesn't even care if the maps destroyed. because all he wants is for Luke to not come back.

all these things make Snoke seem like more of a puppet master and less of a power house. there is wisdom in self preservation, but all of his actions point towards someone terribly afraid of other force users...not someone unparalleled in power.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the "Bloodline" novel takes place roughly 6 years before the events of TFA. And in the book Kylo/Ben is still believed to be with Luke; at least as far as Leia knows.

Just pointing that out. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Outside of the "Aftermath" series, "Bloodline" is the only cannon novel that kept my attention. That said, I don't pour over the novels looking for tiny details to the same degree as others do, so I may be wrong.

 

I have to agree with you doubt if there is a Rey skywalker. Who ever she is will still require explaining but I think the hints are going to start in Rebels. You are correct for Kylo Ren it is written to closely and i think that is going to be part of the big twist at the end of the movie... and no he is not going to be a fanatic or zealot. Although he certainly was studing his grandfather and he thinks he will be stronger by going to the darkside. But its his real movtives that were kept hidden from us ...
Well more information is coming out about Snoke he is powerful but very frail . You are assuming because of his influence of Ben when he was young. That Ben still wants the same things from him. I doubt that is the case. Snoke is powerful but has to feed off of others to get his power. This is referenced in Aftermath 1st book. You are incorrect about Snoke being his master for 10 years. he has been his master for less than a year. Hints in the movie and book you missed. WE know that 6 years before is when Ben left Luke. Ben would have been with Luke from about the age 15 to 23. Also, when Ben left Luke he went to learn about Vader and the Darkside... Not join Snoke. Snoke had to send him a calling card to lure him in and that is from book Perfect Weapon which most over looks. Also, his clothing is a hint he has only been with Snoke for a short period of time. There is nothing Snoke needs to teach him that is a false. he is very well trained in the lightsaber and as a force user he does things we have not even seen Luke nor Vader do. but the lightsaber will be improved by Luke if you caught that hint.he has been Trained for 8 years by Luke. again he has been with Snoke less then a year. In the last 6 years, he has been building the Knights of Ren and studying more of the Darkside. the only training Snoke is interested in is so he can train his power... Ren somehow for the moment is not a good receptor for this yet... Take note he had other students which are now gone. aS for the map here is the question you need to ask ... Why is it Ren has to have the map and Snoke and Hux is good with destroying the map. We have no indication that Ben wants to fight nor destroy Luke. You are buying into a misdirection by assumption. If you read Aftermath chapter 18 and the screaming cidetal you will understand what happened to Luke's students and what Snoke is ...

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2017 ---

Wise words and very important. Aftermath is important for other reasons. Although part of the main story gives you back story on Hux and Ben (mainly his birth) There are many other hints. as well We do not see it yet but you are getting your back story of Snoke and that is part of the main plot as well. However, what is not part of the main plot is the back story on Phasma, bb8. You are correct about Bloodline. Ben was with Luke I suspect from the age of 15 to 23 and studied under Luke for at least 8 years. When he left Luke he did not go to Snoke instead he left Luke to study his Grandfather and the darkside. What better place to study Vader than with the Acolytes of beyond. Ergo back to the aftermath book the sword destroyed proabably the acolytes still had its red crystal but it was cracked this is how and where Ben built a new sword for himself as he needed to replace the one lost. The knights came from the Acolytes and were spun off from them... I suspect they will have some force skills but hard to tell yet if it is important. Another book that is important but over looked is a book Called the perfect Weapon. This is the story of how Vaders Helmet is obtained.. which is by someone very rich like Snoke. So when we see beginning of TFA we assume wrongly Ben has been with Snoke for awhile. yet there are hints his sword still unfinished and his clothing not the FO polish. Snoke used the helmet to lure him in. Wrongly Snoke thinks he has him. And then we get the ominous I will finish what you have started Grandfather speech. Falsely we are gah gah all over it thinking how bad Ren is ... huge misdirection. WE are going to get the big twist Ren was seeking the dark side to become stronger to destroy Snoke but Snoke sent him the calling card too early ... Ben was not ready ... but he had to reply anyway so that is one reason why we have an unfinished Ben. It is important to understand why the Knights were built.

 

You forgot Snoke has starting influence (trough the Force) boy Ben Solo form its birth, which is one year after the battle of Endor, at the time of battle on Jakku.This makes me suspect Snoke does have some peculiar power.Full ST Backstory Theory

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2017 ---

Snoke Influenced Ben form Birth people.

hello??Full ST Backstory Theory

 

you are assuming what he is feeling is the same as Snoke... In fact that may only be a partical snoke... or something else entirely . The darkness that was felt might have bee from the holochron the Dark holochron. ... And it seems that Ben in the womb was able to fight it off. Suspect Snoke does meet Ben and Liea later on. But also suspect Liea sends Ben away when he is 15 to live with Luke so from 15 to 23 he was with his uncle and his uncles influence... I also suspect although these two men are dissapointed and may be angry at one another there is still family love between them.

 

According to Leia.

I tend to agree but a mother blaming a boogey man rather than her own son is also possible.

 

Full ST Backstory Theory please read it all I beg you, includes everything anyone needs to know about Snoke influence over Ben a sa child , including JJ. Abrams statement.

 

that does not mean it continued when he went to Luke he was with Luke for a long time. I suspect Ben wants to do the same thing to Snoke as Luke does now. You will first have to answer the question why Ben wants the map and snoke and hux does not need the map that is your first clue to the twist in this story

 

Kylo is abducted orphan in a way, despite Lea's attempt to change this by Luke's training, Ben was indeed influenced trough Force by Snoke from its birth, by a powerfull Dark Side Lord who picked it from its fear of Kylo could be his undoing .
Darkside masters have their prophesies and fears.I suspect Snoke fears Ben would be the hand trough which Force could strike back at him. Just like Palpatine ( by the words of Vader) prophesied Luke could destroy him.

Snoke has Kylo now near his leg , at least he thinks so.

However there is light in Kylo still, and as you correctly observed, there is something more in Kylo's search for Luke.

In TFA novelisation Snoke just wants to prevent Luke's return or kill Luke even to destroy planets if needed to prevent anyone find the map.

Kylo, seems, wants that map to get to the Luke himself.Why? Good question.

It seems strightforward conclusion this is just to kill Luke and became great as his grandfather, finish where Vader failed , to kill Luke at Bespin..But...

However as I said Snoke is reserved to train Kylo, and does not count Kylo can kill Luke (though he would like to, jet this will make him to powerfull), so this is all risky for Snoke ( I am judging from TFA novel) as he obviously takes risk in fully training his "apprentice".

I dont think Snoke is so reserved and worried because he is weak, but because of his past, a weakness connected to his true agenda as he fears of the will of the Force, that Force could strike back at thim.He has "cheated" the Force already to agreat extent for long, looong time. He is Wise.

 

Whatabout other statements, JJ Abrams own statement ,the sum of evidence I presented?
Sometimes I think I am in wrong place for argumented debate indeed.

 

I can not agree based on my my arguments, I am sorry.

Fetus and baby part of life is most fragile , and jet most easy to influence, so Snoke hit it there, it is most effective way.

To strenghten power of my intellectual exibit let me remind that First Order trains (influences) its storm troopers from birth ...why?

Its most effective and most secure way to influence individual to predestine its pathway for the rest of its life.