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I staunchly defended Rey after TFA, but have

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by kuatorises, May 30, 2018.

  1. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    What Luke goes to Yoda to learn is ‘control’. He’s attuned to the Force, but doesn’t know exactly what to do with it. It’s similar to Rey, but not the same. She doesn’t appear to struggle with control in the same way he did. She takes to it straight away, which is what I think bothers some people. She doesn’t struggle like Luke did. But that’s fairly realistic in some regards. Different people learn differently. One’s not better or worse than the other. It’s just different.

    Lucas understood with ESB that the audience implicitly knew Luke was in no real physical danger from Vader. Luke isn’t realistically going to die in the story at that point. He’s plot shielded. However, if it’s instead presented that he could maybe be compromised spiritually, that he could become another Vader, then you have legitimate stakes. Luke, who hasn’t properly learned to combat the darkside yet, might actually turn. The training is there to evidence how ill-prepared he is for what happens next.

    Rey though, is a different premise. Her training isn’t about learning her spiritual deficiencies, it’s about recognizing her own worth. Rey wants to know more about the Force, sure, but not so she can go off and save the day. She wants to leave that to Luke. When Luke isn’t onboard, she wants to leave that to Ben. That’s the opposite of where Luke is at in ESB. You don’t hear him saying “Master Yoda, you have to come back and fight Darth Vader. The Rebellion needs you.” He’s already assumed that role for himself. Rey’s journey is the inverse of Luke’s. It’s about her taking on that responsibility. Of seeing herself as someone worthy of being a hero the galaxy can look to. That’s why recognizing and embracing her parents tossing her away is so vital to that arc.

    Well, that’s how I see it anyhow.
     
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  2. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Actually, if you listen to the ESB Commentary, Lucas DID want the fans to think that Luke could die when he was going to Cloud City. That is why he put the line 'No, there is another' in there. It was a throw away line in that context, but it ended being much more important to the Saga after they figured out who it would be in ROTJ. Lucas wanted the fans to think that Luke could die in ESB, and 'the other' would save the day in the next movie.
     
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  3. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    From what I understood, the “other” was always supposed to be a twin sister. Originally, one that was being trained in secret in another part of the galaxy and could be the focus if Mark Hamill hadn’t decided to continue on like Harrison Ford might not. Contingency planning. When Lucas decided ROTJ would be the finale, the “other” became Leia. But maybe I’m misremembering :)
     
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  4. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    That was the initial plan when Lucas had a 9 story treatment, as Luke was going to look for 'the other' in Episode 6 and then face off with The Emperor in Episode 9. My point was that the reason Lucas put 'the other' in ESB was specifically designed to jolt the viewer that Luke could be killed, yet all hope wasn't gone. I'll have to find it on the ESB Commentary as it's been a long time since I listened to it! :)
     
  5. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Sure, and my point was that the relevance of the training element is more about illustrating how unprepared Luke was for that confrontation, rather than the training itself.
     
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  6. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    My point is the training isnt really important. It is the dialogue between Luke and Yoda that is what is important. It is so you see who Luke is and who he becomes. Force powers are unimportant. It isnt about leveling up. It isnt a video game.
     
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  7. Perdu

    Perdu Rebel Official

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    I was under the impression this was a Rey thread. If Ren had more screen time in TLJ, that would seem to just bolster my point.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2018 ---
    Very true. This got me to thinking - there really isnt anything about Rey in this last installment that stands out like some of her moments in TFA.

    To each their own though. I know many here think the opposite.
     
  8. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    #148 p03, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  9. Darth Cylon

    Darth Cylon Rebel General

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    This is not a violation to me. Honestly, putting those clips side by side makes me have no doubt Rey could lift those rocks. She was calm and at peace where Luke had to also hold his balance upside down while meticulously stacking the rocks on top of each other. Rey is extremely focused and has a huge assist from the force in that moment. Not to mention Luke also loses his focus once the X-Wing sinks. Just because Luke struggled to lift rocks while upside down on Dagobah doesn't mean Rey couldn't when she was 100% focused and completely opening herself up to the force. The force chose Rey as it's vessel to carry out it's will. That why it awakened in her. We also have to remember that it's been well established by Obi-Wan in ANH that the force partially controls your actions. So I really don't see how it's unbelievable that Rey could lift those rocks.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 30, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 30, 2018 ---
    B
    Bingo.

    On top of that, Luke taught her a very pure version of the force in his few lessons. What Luke teaches Rey was priceless information so wise that even Snoke when digging through Rey's memories was impressed.
     
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