I think Snoke was a jedi before

Yeah it's great, until you realise you have posted a thousand word thesis on why Rey carries a staff when you should be working...

 

Guess is cannon that Snoke can't be a Jedi because Yoda stated to Luke that after his own Death there will be only one Jedi, Luke, but wait there is another one, Leia? While the Sith had the "Rule of Two" meaning Palpatine and Vader and no one else, so he can't be a Sith either.

Questions and probale answers:

- Snoke can be a new version of an old enemy, like Plagueis or Palpatine?
- Does anyone knows Snoke is actually force trained in the ancient Jedi or Sith ways?
- Snoke is an old being but has he always been a Force user? How could he fly under Palpatine or Yoda Radar?
- Snoke should appear legit in order to approach Ben Solo unnoticed by Leia or Han?
- Is Snoke hologram what Snoke really looks like? (wizard of OZ everybody)

Craziest idea ever:

Do we know Yoda species life cycle enough to say clearly that Snoke isn't a Yoda Metamorphose???????? (i like Kafka)

 

Although Rebels has ruined that with Kanan and Ezra - who Yoda even speaks with!!! Crazy.

Plagueis has to be #1 theory

Well he is steeped in Dark Side knowledge so to have that knowledge without any connection to the Sith order would be very odd and contradictory.

Only if he has been injured and inactive and living far far away.

Indeed. Using the Sith's old 2 mask/faces trick.

I think he will be a joke if he's 2ft tall. I just think he's normal height. Maybe quite tall.

I think you should have a lie down.

 

Yes, I believe you're right: I should have written that as "He is a Dark Side user, but he has not yet been confirmed as being a Sith or never having been a Sith."

It does make sense! The more one goes towards one end of the spectrum, the greater the force and all the more powerful the effect of the reversal - peripeteia as it is called in terms of the study of Greek tragedy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripeteia).

Yes, I see Ben/Kylo as impressionable as clay: not yet hardened so as to be unable to be shaped. Although, Snoke, at the end of The Force Awakens, seems ready to toss his misshapen creation into the kiln of training.

Potentially, this could establish Kylo as completely heartless. Personally, I hope they don't do that with him, but I sense they will try and perhaps succeed, at least for a while, since the Sequel Trilogy at this point could benefit from more contrast (as the Vatican, of all critics, pointed out: http://www.theguardian.com/film/201...ars-the-force-awakens-villains-kylo-ren-snoke).

In the awesome Arthurian thread, I drew a connection between Snoke and the Skywalker bloodline with regards to Snoke's (yet undefined) "Grail Quest" and the idea as "the Force as Sangreal."

I hope the storytellers will make good on some of these very incredibly powerful and interrelated ideas in Episode VIII and IX.

Snoke could be one of the greatest tragic villains of all time, in a class of his own and distinguished enough from Palpatine, Vader, and all the power-seekers before him. This could be true of Ben/Kylo as well.

This could then provide the maximum contrast and stakes to make the best case, going forward for Luke Skywalker, Rey, et al to establish a new Jedi Code and Order after overcoming and dissolving the potential Force omniscience and/or omnipotence of Snoke and/or Kylo.

JediMasterRobert

 

I hope not. At first, I was hoping he really was that large, but then it was a hologram, and he was later said to be closer to around seven feet tall.

We know from Yoda never to judge someone by their size, certainly not in terms of Force ability, but I could see people snickering potentially for the wrong reasons and Star Wars sacrificing major gravitas if Snoke is revealed to be chipmunk sized and have as squeaky a voice.

If Snoke was revealed to have no Force powers left (possibly due to a previous fatal encounter, such as with a certain Palpatine/Sidious), that could be his "weakness" hinted at in the press.

Perhaps Snoke could resurrect himself, "cheating death" (to paraphrase Palpatine's Plagueis speech in Revenge of the Sith) but only at the expense of no longer being able to wield the Force.

This would be then why he has created the First Order, perhaps with a view to using it primarily to rid the galaxy of his only true concern at this point: Luke Skywalker.

And then, perhaps finding this out during some last encounter, Luke and Rey express pity for such a revealed-to-be-powerless Snoke, sparing him and having him sent away to some Star Wars equivalent of Arkham Asylum (or the Plastic Prison used for Magneto in X-Men).

JediMasterRobert

 

Allow me to correct some little things:

Yoda profetic words and the existence of Kanan and Ezra just mean that Kanan and Ezra are already dead when Yoda speaks to Luke, actually Kanan and Ezra should die before ANH.

I'm not questioning Snoke "Dark Side" knowledge but if Snoke was Sith or Jedi proper trained, this means force trained by another trained force user, and that answer should be NO because no one knew or notice him while he approached Ben Solo unless he is indeed a new form for an old character, perhaps the living corpse of someone that the galaxy once knew but doesn't recognize in this form. But his real looks might be the greatest mistery box of this trilogy and i won't be sure until we saw him in live action form, so keep your 2-3 feet tall guy in reserve, because that cuold be an astounishing plot twist.

I think the artifacts and the ancient temples are coming strong in the current plots because they will provide the nice excuse to hide Snoke in plain sight from the big bad guys like Palpatine and Vader, just like Yoda and the Dagobah Dark Tree, this way the creative team could place Snoke anywere on the map and on any temporal placement because he is "Hidden" by an old Jedi/Sith temple and no other force user could find him on the galaxy. Actually this argument might get used alot to introduce new force characters into the movies.

Snoke being Yoda's butterfly was a joke but Yoda really reminds me a catterpilar. But please don't rule out any true name for Snoke because in my own opinion if Snoke is an ancient character present in the major events from the begining (Serkis sayd it and it really makes sense), Snoke should be someone knowed throught out the Galaxy, at least someone that was known before a crippling accident that scared him for life, and before he lay on an ancient temple of the Sith/Jedi were he stayed unnoticed and studied and mastered the ways of the Force until Palpatine was dead and he then takes his place as the evil force user controling a fascist soldier regime. Personally i will not consider Snoke being Plagueis because: a) Plagueis is a brief reference in the SW Prequels witch now are treated like radioactiv waste and b) Plagueis background is knowed by us and is kind of boring, if they introduce a new ancient evil guy they could explore him deeper in future movies or novels or tv shows.

 

Yeah I don't mean that he will be a joke just because he is small. But rather he would be a joke because he tried to hide the fact he is small. SO when we eventually meet him, there isn't a threat because he is admitting there is a weakness. Yoda handled his vertically challenged crude matter as irrelevant and thus we respected him for that.

Unless Ezra is Snoke

If he was a new Jedi from Luke's order then that might be a good reason how he did get so close. But if he was an old Jedi or Sith from the past then no one will recognise him anyway. I just don't think it is a coincidence that he looks like he has been faced smashed by Force lightning and been undetectable during Sidious' regime - only reemerging after the Sith were destroyed.

I think those artifacts are more about Kylo wanting to find a connection with Vader than Snoke doing that.
However my theory on Snoke is that he has cheated death by living off of the Dark Side - perhaps in places like the Evil Cave on Dagobah that is imbued with the Dark Side. Once balance was restored, the Dark Side was diminished and this forced an ill-prepared and vulnerable Snoke out of the wilderness and into the open so he could destroy the balance and restore the Dark Side again so he was empowered.

1) The PT I believe is referenced more in TFA than people expected. And now talk of EM's Kenobi coming back? I don't think we should view the PT as jettisoned just yet.
2) Plagueis' backstory is boring?! The guy who potentially created Darth Vader? Trained Palpatine? Was the big player in pushing through the Sith's 1000yr plan? Who learned how to save people from death? Come on, boring?!

 

I try not to, kid.

 

Compared to some known Siths like Vitiate, Darth Bane, Revan and Marka Ragnos you must aknoledge that Plagueis is kinda LAME.
(they need to bring Ewan McGregor back to play Obi-Wan because he did a really good job and Alec is no more)

But actually with all the theories around spirits and artifacts why nobody comsidered Snoke to be Darth Nihilus?

 

I'm hoping the saga can find a way to "win" without continuing the ages-old cycle of violence and destruction.

This is likely another one of those things Luke Skywalker has been meditating on during his withdrawing from the galaxy.

He can draw from his own experiences, perhaps tapping the "sentiment" he and his father had, which Snoke had Kylo Ren believe was Vader's weakness.

JediMasterRobert

 

Absolutely not! Ancient Sith with no connection to the Skywalker saga, who have been retconned into surviving somehow for a millennia or more is naff in my opinion. Plagueis has it all. The connection. The greatest power a Sith could desire. And he's already been mentioned which means it won't feel like a tacked on villain. Where is the interest in him just being some ancient Sith, no matter how cool they might have been in the EU? Plagueis could've created Anakin! He could cheat death. He trained Sidious! That's infinitely more interesting that "he's an ancient Sith that looked cool" or whatever.

 

I was talking of guys that slaughtered millions, did extreme evil deeds, had cmoplex twists and different rich plot backgrounds, I was talking about bad guys with charisma and ulterior motives.

Check the trends right now............. there's a big evocation on Revan and Bane in several medias by plenty of SW people, but they will NEVER be in the new movies because that would force movie viewers to view and check other SW stuff, on other hand there's also a huge TREND on mocking Dart Plagueis by every SW guy on the media.

I believe SW creative team will follow Hitchcook's Rule about Movies "Keep it simple"

My best guess is: just consider Kylo Ren and probably Rey, they remind us alot of Jaicen and Jaina Solo, there's also plenty references of Revan and the Revanites in TFA but it isn't Revanites but the Knights of Ren, my point is that they are picking the best juicy parts of several characters and adapting them for the new movies, therefore, Snoke is going to be a new character made up of pieces of old characters from the EU and i'm seing plenty of references to Nihilus already, of course Snoke can't be Nihilus but they might share a similar backstory. (Bane is also on the references card)

 

Killing a ton of people doesn't make them interesting. And there is a theory for just about every Sith Lord that has ever existed being Snoke - but none are as compelling as Plagueis. Most people want Snoke to be Plagueis. Just look on twitter, stuff there all the time. And then we have our own poll here where the majority of voters would prefer Snoke to be Plagueis:

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/darth-plagueis-in-the-sequel-trilogy.190/

I see no mocking of Plagueis other from people are are still bitter about the PT and don't want anything from it used in the ST. Well, sorry guys but TFA was more PT than you realise and Rian Johnson openly said he "loved the PT". Arndt has also gone on record to say that they in fact used a lot of Lucas' original story - and would Lucas' have not used his PT for inspiration?

The PT is a massive part of the saga whether you like it or not and has attracted a new generation of movie goers to Star Wars.

 

It's interesting, as I see these kinds of discussions unfold, that some commenters have pointed out that we knew nothing of the Emperor when we first saw the Original Trilogy and, in some way, did not require more than was revealed.

But one point tends to escape consideration: before the Original Trilogy, there was not other Star Wars content.

I mention this because, going into and exiting from The Force Awakens, many of us experience a character like Snoke with some substantial knowledge Star Wars history.

And this goes a long way toward shaping our concerns and expectations with regards to a pivotal character like Snoke.

Most of us need him to fit into the Star Wars story in not a simply tacked-on/retcon manner but rather someone we could understand had some presence if not influence in the larger narrative. Otherwise, he's merely another villain in what could be an endless line of randomly-powerful adversaries.

I'm of the opinion the Prequel Trilogy (and the actor playing him) did an amazing job giving Palpatine dimension, and we gained new insight as to what nefarious happenings and subterfuge the Jedi and the larger galaxy had to confront.

So I think our knowledge of Star Wars makes many of us prefer or need Snoke to have some "profoundly satisfying" background (perhaps even more so than Rey's backstory) in order to "qualify" him as someone who had the "right" so to speak to overturn the galaxy, ruin everything Luke, Leia, Han, and the Rebellion achieved, and to strike fear in everyone's hearts through the First Order.

Beyond this, we have seen many supervillain characters and monstrosities before in movies, comics, books, and in our own history. Snoke, since this is Star Wars (and occurring after all this established fictional and real material), almost needs to be something truly next-level, someone well beyond Palpatine and the Sith and yet still have some tangible historical connection to the existing storyline.

This is why, I think, Snoke theories trend strongly towards already-established entities within the Star Wars saga, even if people feel required to go back to ancient times to find someone potentially suitable enough to fit such a part.

Snoke, in the end, could be "just Snoke," but he would have to have an extraordinary backstory, nevertheless, to have been able to pull off all he has up to The Force Awakens and claiming the title of Supreme Leader.

One does not simply stroll into the Star Wars galaxy and rebuild an Empire into the First Order.

Haha, now I'm thinking of what Boromir said in The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring...

Snoke would have to exercise unprecedented skill at manipulation, something Sheev could watch, if he still could, "with great interest."

JediMasterRobert

 

i guess i disagree with this. the First Order does not impress me. they have technological power shored up with some Dark side muscle. they have fanaticism, and they are trying to conquer.

but they are also a very young organization with enthusiastic, but hardly sound leadership (they make such a point of showing traitors, cowards, and naivete in the ranks). and Kylo Ren isn't exactly holding anything together. his co-leadership disrespects him, he bickers back. these are not unified movers and shakers and Snoke seems to give them long leashes with which to hang themselves.

meanwhile Snoke himself is running scared of Luke.

so maybe Snoke is someone, but maybe he's just an opportunist who is exploiting the weakness of everyone around him: the Empire's remnants, the Republic's overconfidence, Luke's exile, Kylo Ren's weak-mindedness, etc.