Ignoring the Star Wars haters

You see I’ve always been kind of the opposite with plot holes in scfi esplically character motivation plot holes.
I figure that theirs so much fantastical stuff happening that isn’t real belivable that the plot and the characters choices and the world around them make as much sense as possible.

Of course thier normally will end up with plot holes anyway but theirs also ways of hiding them so that the audience doesn’t notice them, either through pacing tone and flow of a film and many films that have barrels of plot holes manage to hide it through one or a mixture of these methods.

But like you and Pawek have both said taste is subjective, If plot holes arnt what makes you like or dislike a film that’s 100% valid argument.

 

It's a valid argument because it leads to problems with the storytelling. These include the unnecessary Canto Bight scene, Holdo's illogical actions, Rey's Mary Sue background coupled with Broom Boy which essentially render both the OT (with its emphasis on Jediism) and PT (with Anakin as the Chosen One) irrelevant, and more.

It's notable that there are similar problems with the previous films (such as the use of midi-chlorians in PT) but those in the recent movies are apparently based on heavy-handed and clumsy attempts to raise political points concerning race and gender.

Now, I don't mind such points raised, but they have to be done subtly and as part of well-crafted storytelling. That's not what happened with the last two movies.

 

The plot hole thread I’ve been through it and their are some terrible points on both sides some really convultuted answers. I mean I asked why don’t the new order who have the fuel to go faster then light just infront if the rebbellion ships, and the answer I got was their thick and over confident which is utterly rubich answer. In fainess though the basic rule of thumb is if you like the film you will except any answer to make things make sense and refuse to accept any possibility of a flaw, and if you didn’t like the film you will over criticise everything, and not even except good explanation for things. So the thread like every thread just decends into no it’s a good film no it’s a bad film......

I think that’s to do with perspective, I mean I personly think pretty much every thing to do with Holdo in this film makes little sense ( that argument has gone back of force thou and I’m tired of going over it) I will say that you could probably get away with her actions in another film we’re the tone and pacing was more even.

The Mary Sue thing well I go back and forth but for me at least it kind of carries on from from what we saw in the Force Awakens and had a vague explanation from Snoke ( even if that explanation seems to have some issues) but at least thier is a bit of an explanation of her power.
I agree on the broom boy thing it’s a kid you seems to have a bit of force powers, their are bound to be some of them out their, I mean Luke was even teaching some, you can't think that was the last of them.

 

people also seem to dis miss things that don't really make sense, or except terrible explanations becuase they like the film and don't like it been criticised whether that criticism be fair or other wise.
its just the way people are, people stand up for their own point of few and grab on to things that support their point of view.

their was one a while back i think, but like every thread just descended into her arcs good no its bad.....

 

There are no plot holes, absolutely none? That is simply not a rational point of discussion, objectivity has left.
Calling out people who do not like the movie a hater, everybody is a hater? Pretty harsh. Then kicking these haters to the curb because, there are no plot holes?
There are plot holes in every Star Wars movie, we still love Star Wars. These have never been perfect films and TLJ is definitely not immune to this. To say so is bizarre and seems to imply that TLJ is a perfect film. It is not and that is okay too.

 

............and then some new guy came in and said things like this ^

I am beginning to feel I should leave the cantina. I'm here to enjoy and talk about Star Wars, I love Star Wars, I love the Last Jedi. Guess I need to find it somewhere else with these kind of posts. Some of you might end up in a book you know.

 

Shutting down posts with absolution as the gatekeeper of knowledge specifically envisioned by those who state it, well maybe fascist was a bit much, not sure it falls much lower. There are plot holes in this movies, as with all Star Wars films. Stating there are none by anyone, shuts down any thought,s or ideas is kinda of Sith like.

 

think you've kind of mist the posters point and taken it a bit out of context.

 

You have a keen understanding of fascism. Accusations of 'near fascism' or 'almost fascist' or 'nearly fascist' don't belong here

 

"Almost fascist", "maybe fascist". Whatever you might think of someone's intentions or opinions. Throwing around accusations of fascism or near fascism doesn't really help keeping things polite. It is low.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 28, 2018 ---

Exactly.

 

again slight over reaction poster is obviously trying to point out that a lot of people are are simply been ridiculous in their defence of the film as the title of this thread clearly demonstrates, any one who doesn't like The Last Jedi is a Star Wars Hater that's ridiculous!
Agree the use of the word facist was the wrong use of the word, they were obviously trying to make a point and used a word that would make people not concentrate on their point put rather dwell on the word, hardly unhinged (which i would point out is also rude)

 

It. Is relevant in this thread to talk about labelling people as haters, as in the interest of this fan base. Gatekeeping information to shutdown any discussion, is wrong.
As for plot holes, Luke spear fishing on Ach-To is taken from the book Legends of Luke Skywalker. That technique was taught to him on the planet Lew'el. You can only use that technique using the force or the Tide as it is called there. Obviously so, due to the massive length of the spear and inherent danger. This cannot be achieved by luck or sight. Only problem is that Luke was cut off from the force. That scene is not possible without the force, as per canon.
Now I will go to the plot holes thread with this but is in response to your question or gatekeeping of thought.

This fanbase is better than stifling debate, that was my point. Apologies if it was misconceived.

 

You know what, not going to discuss this with you. I guess you wanted to humiliate me now for an obvious typing error and not even look at the question.

 

He didn't do anything that required the force. It looks like something he's done A LOT. Dangerous yes. Strength and timing, yes. But the force? No. This is in no way a plot hole. Especially when the Book of Legends is exactly that. Many of the stories in those Luke Legends are embellished by the story teller. So that book cannot be pointed to for canon.

 

The problem is not social justice but the poor manner by which it was expressed in TLJ. The result is poor writing, as I pointed out clearly in my examples.

Holdo's actions are illogical because there was no reason for her to keep her plans from Poe and others. The tension between Holdo and Poe was completely unnecessary, and appeared to be nothing more than a plot contrivance to malign Poe and see him as nothing more than a hot-headed "fly-boy".

Rey is clearly a Mary Sue because she turns out to be more powerful than even Anakin, and with almost no training. The same goes for Broom Boy.

What makes the previous films irrelevant given these last two points is that the use of the force no longer requires training and discipline, something that all of those who wielded the force, including Anakin, had to undergo. In the end, Luke concludes that it's all merely "vanity." Thus, the idea of the Jedi as developed in OT and PT has been rendered meaningless.

And there are more examples of poor writing as discussed by James Raney and others in an objective manner:

Finally, the question isn't whether or not disliking the movie is "fine" but whether or not criticism makes sense, and I believe that I and others have been able to achieve that.

Finally, what has not been discussed is poor character development. Had they worked on that problem, TLJ would have been a very good movie. Imagine Rey as a weak, struggling orphan who, little by little, gains in strength and maturity until she becomes the central hero of the third act. That would have gained a lot of sympathy from the audience while enhancing the gravitas of the trilogy without sacrificing entertainment. Or work on better dialogue and scenes to flesh out the characters of Finn, Poe, Rose, and more. Remember Hans Solo and Princess Leia from the early films? The writers nailed it by giving them very good lines and scenes which enhanced not only each character (the charming rogue and the prim and proper but very snarky princess) but also their relationship to each other.

What I find utterly tragic about this is that of all things, writing is the least expensive cost in producing films!