Ignoring the Star Wars haters

Ain't there something wrong with the thread title?

I've ignored Star Wars haters all my life, but find myself in agreement with many folks that dislike or hate TLJ.

Or has it become somewhat official that a TLJ hater qualifies now as a Star Wars hater? (I'd say the contrary is true, IMHO).

 

It can be difficult when you have a property like Star Wars that was such a big part of the general consciousness, especially if you grew up with it (as many of us did). When something is such a fundamental part of your childhood, sometimes helping to frame to a young mind what a hero is and how they behave, I guess it's easy to drop straight into protecting your childhood memories rather than temper it with a bit of wisdom that comes with age.

There seems to be a general lack of tolerance in the world for opinions different to our own these days; combined with a situation where we seem to accept ever more readily those facts that match up with our own feelings. Whether someone loves the prequels, or hates them, or loves TLJ or hates it, it doesn't matter. I guess what we all have in common, in Star Wars fandom, is far more than what separates us.

[Gets off soapbox, misses his footing and falls flat on his face. Cue giggles from the audience]

 

I saw TLJ 8 times in theaters. Every time there were different crowd reactions which is common when going to see movies. In terms of empty seats, 7 out of the 8 times I went the theater, it was full. The only time it wasn't filled was at 10pm on a Wednesday night when I was seeing the film at a small art house theater. The other 7 times I saw the film I was in major theater chains.

Mass amounts of people wearing costumes to the premier is leftover nostalgia from Phantom Menace. Now people wear more practical shirts or hats over costumes.

I'm pretty sure lightsabers are banned from movie theaters now for "safety concerns". I remember when TFA came out the theater I saw it in was making a big deal about how lightsabers would not be permitted in the theater.

And opening week is much different then opening night or opening weekend. How many days after release did you first see it?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 24, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 24, 2018 ---

No I don't think TLJ haters qualify as SW haters unless they always hate on SW. There are valid criticism of this film. Somethings didn't land for me, like Rose saving Finn. The problem is when you dig through the scores of hatred for TLJ on youtube a pattern presents itself of many racist and ignorant rants surrounding the film. It seems like there is a lot of band wagon jumping in terms of making videos bashing the film. Many videos I watched were from youtube channels that have just started posting content using the TLJ controversy to bring in the viewers, which is fine. Some of these videos while making valid points I could respect but others, no so much. I can't tell you how many youtube channels I had never heard of posted rants about how TLJ is a SJW mess, which it's not. These people claim that there are no white male characters of importance, even though Poe is clearly white, but they'll counter that by saying he comes from a country of Latin American origin. This is just blatant racism and I've watched video after video of white men crying about this. They complain about Canto Bight being too political about arms dealers but I bet many of them love the first Iron Man film, which was heavily based around Tony Stark's change of conscious after realizing his weapons company to be responsible for selling to both sides. The Rey is a Mary Sue argument I also find to be a farce. They complain that with no training Rey beat Kylo and Luke Skywalker in combat. That is laughable. One, when we first meet Rey we are immediately shown she is a capable hardend fighter. Two, when she first fought Kylo, they like to forget he'd been shot by the bow caster, injured by Finn and not even trying to kill her. Thirdly, she didn't beat Luke in a fight. She cheated. Usuing her staff, she first struck Luke from behind while he wasn't looking. Then proceeded to fight Luke, using a metal stick, still effortlessly blocking her strikes. He even disarmed her before she called upon a lightsaber which she ignited on a man without one. That is not beating Luke Skywalker in a fight. The last major complain that I find ridiculous has to do with purple hair and people presenting wild accusations as fact that Leia and Holdo were a lesbian couple in the film, which makes no sense that a mourning General Leia in the midst of an evacuation, had time to be getting freaky with her childhood friend. Again there is legitimate anger and criticism for this film, but you have to swim through a sea of garbage to get to it. Sorry about the rant.

 

And it pays to remember that the divisiveness whenever new SW movies reach our field of vision is a natural thing.
It all plays into the inherent cognitive biases of all groups and even the neutral opinions tend to get viewed by polarized groups as the opposite extreme.

Opinions don't need to be accurate in order to be popular and I've always been fascinated by our psychology of stupidity.
If anyone's curious about the “why's” here's a few cognitive biases that I think specifically contribute to this SW polarization and that we're all generally susceptible to:

• We tend to pay more attention to bad news. (Negativity Bias)

• We often belief society is tending toward decline. (Declinism)

• We are 'loss averse' and tend to perceive the pain of losing something as being greater than the pleasure of gaining it. (Endowment Effect)

• We are easily influenced by irrelevant information and can make overconfident conclusions from small amounts of evidence. (Law of Small Numbers/Apophenia)

• We often select for data that conforms to our presumptions. (Confirmation Bias/Motivated Reasoning)

• We favour the status quo even if it is not in our best interests and often ignore data that dis-confirms our presumptions. (Status Quo Bias)

• It is discomforting for us when we hold two or more conflicting ideas. (Cognitive Dissonance)

• How we react to a particular choice in different ways depending on how it is presented; e.g. as a loss or as a gain. (Framing Effect)

• We are swayed by social pressures and will often follow the herd instead of making decisions to suit ourselves. (Bandwagon Effect)

• We give random events structure and narrative after fact. (Hindsight Bias)

• We often confuse noticing an event more often with an increased frequency of the event. (Observational Selection Bias)

• We often can react to dis-confirming evidence by strengthening beliefs. (Backfire Effect)

My grandfather had a little saying he'd use when people kept trying to talk him around to something:
"a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

Edit: spelling and quote

 

It's not a well-written article because the two points that it raises to illustrate the hate, i.e., the "feminist/SJW propaganda" and that the movie did badly in China, are valid arguments, and thus should be understood rather than ignored.

 

There are touchy people on both sides of the debate. I think if you call someone a SW hater based on their dislike of parts of SW and not the whole universe, you are setting yourself up to be called a SW hater for loving something that others view as not being true to SW. IMO, neither definition is fair. Keep the "SW haters" label for those who hate the franchise.

To answer your question, there is nothing official. People like and dislike different parts of TLJ, even those who profess to love it. Some people are more forgiving, some people more tolerant, some people just view things differently and can appreciate things others can't or refuse to. There's a whole bunch of gray between the white and black. Stay true to yourself instead of trying to view an individual as an "enemy" or SW hater. Allow yourself to agree with the other side if you happen to agree with them on that subject, and that goes for both sides.

I did not like TLJ, but I'm trying not to wallow in my hatred. Instead I'm allowing myself to see what some who love it love about it. In that way I've gained some appreciation of the movie. I still have a whole lot of issues with it, but any headway I can make takes away a little pressure on 9 having to be absolutely perfect (for me, to redeem the trilogy).

 

Basically if you don't like the prequels ( 3 movies ), it's OK but if you didn't like TLJ you're a whole Star Wars hater ?

 

I agree on this and actually it’s hard for me because one of my closest friends is that very vocal trolling minority...

Like I am all for debates and I agree I really liked the last Jedi but also there were some major things I didn’t like either.

I really like that there are places on this board that are for people who genuinely whole heartedly hate it and that’s great! Everyone needs a forum and I just avoid those.

What I don’t agree with is the trolling of Rian and Kelly on birthday posts and things...that to me is to far and is cyber bullying. It’s not on!

I think one of the biggest differences about the fan base this time around is this is the first trilogy in the time of social media..so people are eager to get fired up behind their keyboard courage and be heard

I mean we can all tweet, make YouTube videos, and Instagram posts on a trilogy that none of us know the endgame since the original trilogy. Because let’s be honest we all knew what the end of the PT was going to be...it was more a matter of how. So we are all spinning ourselves crazy this time around because we don’t know what’s going to happen

Which is very exciting and scary at same time

Where I’m getting at with this long rant is debate kindly and respect others and know what’s the difference between passion and trolling

Love to all x

 

As someone who loved this movie, I can see where a lot of the criticisms come from. However, I'm not sure why the hatred is SO vitriolic. There's something really deep about this movie that is angering people and I'm still not sure what that is.

 

That's what I wrote about earlier in this thread: Who says, who is when a Star Wars hater? The thread goes on and on and on and it is still not clear to me...

 

As am I, Friend, but one of many who Loved this part of the Story told us.
Yep.
I can see but a few (Very Few) Actual Real criticisms and what's meant.

But the outright Hate (that is a Very Strong word) ?
That I can tell (just one fella's observations) ?
It's a part of what @ReyErso5280 said ^up^ there about "behind their keyboard courage" .
That there's Such a Small percentage (So Small, at This Here-n-Now time) .

What I Said Previous, pages ago,

"Don't Hate, Don't Rate"

In Plain ?

IGNORE.
Do Nothing.
Leave Them (Few) Alone.

Them FEW ... They want attention.

Simple.

DON"T give it to 'em.

It.
Will
END.

 

The first time I saw TLJ, I sat in the theatre listening to music and reading the credits. I was the last one left in the theater... I was the last one to walk out. I waited 2 years for a RJ SW film and I really enjoyed it. I was the only one left in the theatre as the credits rolled. Is it a perfect film... no. Was I shocked by Luke's disenchantment with the Jedi... yes.

I will never let anyone change my mind in terms of films because films and art are subjective; everyone comes away from them differently. If you hate TLJ fine, I will not waste my time to change your mind. Its a foolish endeavor.

LFM and Disney know that there will be haters, as long as they make a profit there will be more SW films. More SW films being released, as a fan of SW that makes me very happy. I remember the dark time when there were no Star Wars films just Star Wars books that George didn't consider canon. If these are the dark time for you SW haters, TLJ haters, sequel haters, or RJ haters then I really feel sorry for the lot of you.

I remember when LFM stated that they loved TLJ and gave RJ a new trilogy. I was like REALLY thats a bit brash and over confident. What if the film sucks?! but most people on this forum drank the poisoned Kool-Aid. they thought it was going to be a great film just cause LFM said it was good. Now they are all complaining about how horrible it is. Its so sad for you bunch.

I enter these dark threads just to read opposing views and to understand the hate. They won't change my love for the prequels, sequels, standalone and beyond. Long live LFM & Star Wars Disney films!

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 27, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 27, 2018 ---

A good tip for all TLJ haters don't waste your time with the SOLO film, episode 9, or Ob1 film. when Star Wars films stop making a billion dollars at the box office or can't make 650 million at the box office then Disney and LFM will stop and listen to the haters and make adjustments called fan service but as long as the films keep making an enormous profit LFM and Disney will continue on there merry way.

 

I Got a PORG Rating !

YaY !

 

See im kind of on the opposite side of this, I walked out the first time utterly hating this film and just thinking it was a complete mess, having avoided all reviews reactions going in i assumed that this film was going to be terribly received by most, obviously in this aspect i was wrong!
So have spent quite a bit of time trying to understand why and how people can like this film, partially to understand but mostly cos im a Star Wars fan and i don't like not liking a Star Wars film.
While this has defiantly helped show me some things to like about the film (the Themes, the cinematography, Hamill's performance) I can't understand how so many people love rate this film so much, i mean ive seen numerous people list it as their number one Star Wars film...... it just doesn't compute with me

 

Yup, you got that right.
If the first trilogy of Star Wars had come out in these modern times, it would have been slaughtered on social media.

I loved the first trilogy back then, but my daughter of 10 thinks it looks weird.
The special effects are poor, the lightsaber fights are clumsy and the aliens look like muppets.
That's the opinion of the new generation of SW, she's used to a different kind of Star Wars.

 

I think the same about ROTS. A lot of people will rate it number 1, which is bizarre to me.

 

I agree with you their.

 

Film is subjective and each person's criteria on which we grade films and importance of each one of these is entirely personal. I won't say that there are no geenral guidelines which let us distinguish bad films from good ones but they can only help us up to a point. After that, the fine details are determined by viewers themselves and since the are people, the critetria can be very emotional and not make a lot of sense to others or some people may pay attention to certain aspects that others simply ignore. For example, I've never cared for plot holes and never will.

 

It also has to do with genre-specifications. If there's a bad performance in a horror film, well....who cares? If there's a bad performance in a drama or thriller....then it has to get called out. Sci-fi plots are always going to have some contrivances or even contradictions and mysteries. Fantasy films can vary in tone more than other genres because it's....well, it's fantasy.

But the 'Star Wars' genre is pretty difficult to define because it's a conglomerate of everything so fans have vastly different interpretation on what's 'important' in a SW film or show or whatever. Some fans like to catalogue species and names and timelines and yadda yadda yadda like it's the Simarillion (which, let's be honest, not all self-professed LOTR fans have really read) so taking away the EU was hard to handle. Other fans are beholden to the soap opera aspect of Anakin Skywalker's family, others like the morality play mythological aspects of it, others like the fantasy, and etcetera. It's hard to pin down what the 'majority' of the fans really embrace because Star Wars is so comprehensive.