Insulted by last Jedi? Does Disney deserve anymore of your money after this?

The first time I saw TFA I was thinking the same. People were expecting a fairy tale, but got slapped in the face with good ol' cold realism...
"Why does it have to be like that?" I was asking, just like you.
But then I realised Star Wars isn't a fairy tale because it was intended to be. Star Wars is just as well an echo of it's own era. A sample of it.
The late 70s, 80s and the eras SW took it's inspiration from were simpler times. We were at pre 9/11-era, the ecnomomy was stable and the global conflitcs seemed more black and white. You have the big bad dictatorships (USSR, nazis etc) vs the "free world".
But that era is gone forever and will not return in the close future. The international conflicts are not good and white anymore. The Gulf War, Iraq, now Syria and so on...

You can very clearly see how Lucas and Star Wars itself changed as well in the prequel trilogy. It's right there alerady in TPM. The New Age era changed the jedi and the mythology of the Force. It's not magic anymore. Everything is more routine-like, more calculable. Anakin has over 20.000 midichlorians, young jedi train in big groups with mini-lightsabers like it's a kung-fu lesson, force-lighning isn't a special ability for the Emperor anymore, it's a regular sith power etc. Conflicts and opposing forces are more grey (see how everything which triggered the events of TPM derive from a simple tax dispute), good characters have serious moral issues (see how Qui-gon constantly abuses his power for his gains) etc.
9/11 changed everyhing. Not just Star Wars, but Hollywood as a whole. Everything became cynical. Palpatine's character became an obvious parallel to Bush and the trilogy became Lucas's critique of the Bush administration...
Nolan made his incredibly influental trilogy with a realistic approach of a once over the top child's tale about a billionaire roaming the night in spandex fist fighting burglars... The industry has changed forever. You can't sell a childish movie about a childish story anymore (See Batman&Robin). You can't even make a movie about the once optimism-ethalon Superman (!). This is simply how filmmakers approach old tales in "modern" times. They're too afraid of people not being able to take a fairy tale seriously... And not without reason.
I blame this on the internet. Suddenly vocal internet people point and laugh at the old and "cheezy", no matter how well a movie was made. As long as you have this attitude within the general audience you can not escape this.

And you simply can not escape this approach with the new Star Wars.
What is the first major thing Cassian Andor does in Rogue One? Kills a guy to proceed with his goals. The Rebels aren't white anymore. They are thieves, spies, saboteurs and other morally grey people. And this is the first thing you see in ep VII. Failed marriage, lost son, failed jedi... even society itself failed (the Republic let the First Order rise).
One thing is for sure. This approach will not change. If you want the good old days back, you wll always be disappointed in the new movies. Because despite people claiming the ST "copies" the OT, thematically they can't be further away from each other.

It's not sure they divorced though. Life just estrange them. They come together again in the movie though.

The once despicable and selfish thief gets with the princess. This is (ironically) every Disney story ever. A good artist always wants his handmark on a story though. Always wants it different, special. Rian Johnson openly said to Mark Hamill he dosen't want to do anything which was done before by someone else.

You claim it's "stupid", yet you only support it by arguing about things not shown. It's not stupid then. Just not well delievered maybe. Although like I said, you'll understand it yourself once you see someone speicial going off the road.

Faling does not make anyone a loser. "Faliure is the best teacher". Truer words have never been said in Star Wars before. Faliure makes you stronger. Faliure makes you smarter.
Everyone makes missteps. This is why are we humans. Only machines don't fail. What you can not allow yourself to happen however is making the same mistake(s) again...
Overcoming faliures is what makes a true hero. Luke has mostly been perfect. He hasn't really even failed ever before. His first real encounter with it decimated him. But in the end he stood up, fought and saved everyone once again. Doing so without using any bit of hatred, violence or anything associated with the dark side. He's come full cricle. He exceeded every jedi from the PT or the OT.

It's nice to see you're able to talk as an adult. Respecting the opinions of others and coming up with well rounded arguments.

Not really... Mostly archetypes only.

I'm always wondering if the people who come up with this even seen RotJ... Luke outright went on a rampage to murder Vader. Swinging and hacking his lightsaber like a maniac... Only to realise he's about to become the same as his father. The same thing happens in TLJ. Only this Luke isn't a naive farmboy anymore. He's seen the worst. The Empire, the war, Sidous etc. And he's seen the peace and balance for the first time as well. He's afraid of losing it, afraid of all that crap happening again and loses his judgement... But immediately recovers, just like before. It could've been told better I agree, but I can see what the artist was trying to do there.

This is something no one denied so far. The ST has far too many characters to begin with.

It was forced on paper, but the charisma of the actors made it beliveable imo.

Luke didn't even train Rey. At least not in the classical sense. He only gave him lessons about the nature of the jedi and bit of backstory.

Yes you did. Like many, you didn't get the horse you wanted and now you're angry. I advice you to stick with the old-EU and your headcanon. These are just movies after all. You can have whatever story you want inspired by one. Even one you didn't like...

It was made more than clear that Luke disconnected himself from the Force. As soon as he reconnects, Yoda's immidiately there...

 

Why can't Luke show weakness? Why must he be "Perfect"? Watching the film, I not once had an issue with this. Luke Skywalker is not a 1 dimensional character, but a lot of fans wish he was apparently? I don't get the outrage. Luke has been tempted by the dark side before ; Did you not see the end of Return of the Jedi? Luke gives himself up to the Emperor in order to turn Vader back to to the light "I know there is good in him" then he proceeds to almost kill Darth Vader in a fit of rage, but catches himself. How is what he did in Ben's Hut any different? That is how i see it, that is how i've always interpreted this scene.

 

Good point.

 

Give up so easy? I have been a fan since 1977 and have probably contributed part of my retirement on Star Wars Movies, VHS, DVD's, BluRays, Merchandise, etc. What do you want me to do when I don't like the movie? Do you want me to force myself to like it? I didn't like Godfather 3, and 28 years later I still don't, am I not a Godfather fan?

I don't care about Episode 9 because TLJ and TFA are so different, I am not getting hyped for something that I know now that they are writing on the fly. I honestly believed they had something concrete in terms of an outline, but JJ just made up a bunch of Mystery boxes, and RJ made his own movie not really caring about them.

Fool me once, shame on Disney, Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

In a way they are, but not really when it comes to the main plotlines. Reylo, Rey "no one", even Hermit Luke were called here long ago. The only thing no one got was Snoke dying without any backstory.

 

We knew his backstory and that he died in ROTS...

Oh wait...no, that was Plagueis, my bad.

 

I honestly don't mind if they didn't give Snoke a backstory, as that is not what bugs me about the TLJ. It's just not a well done movie that is too long, bad pacing, and bad humor. The reason I am not hyped for Episode 9 is I thought they would have a 'theme' for this Trilogy that would work with 1-6, as right now it's just a tacked on Trilogy at this point. Whatever fans want to say about the PT, the reason Lucas made it was to show the backstory of Vader, and it makes the 1-6 story come full circle. This Trilogy has none of that and that is why I won't be fooled thinking Episode 9 will actually accomplish that.

Actually, I'm looking forward to the Han Solo movie because Ron Howard has a great track record and have liked pretty much everything he has done in his career.

 

*cough* Kylo Ren *cough*

 

I don't get what you mean? Yes Kylo Ren will have an arc in this Trilogy, but how does it relate to the 1-6 story other then he is a Solo/Skywalker? The 1-6 story is the full arc of Darth Vader and the crumbling of the Republic, the rise of the Empire, and the Defeat of the Empire.

What is the big picture story of 7-9 that will bring the 1-9 story full circle?

 

Why do you bother with the ST at all if you think the story was wrapped up?

Anyway, what does it add to the full circle? The legacy of Darth Vader/The Skywalker family.
That is what this trilogy is about.
And to go deeper, Anakin brought balance but his dark legacy (Vader) lived on.
The Empire became the FO. His grandson "became Vader".
This trilogy is about the good guys actually destroying this dark cycle that Vader started.

 

The fact that I saw Episode 7 and 8 tells you I gave it a chance, and didn't think the story was wrapped up. The ST is just more of an add-on at this point, and really unoriginal. Empire = First Order, Rebellion = Resistance, Rey = Luke, Kylo Ren = Vader, Snoke = The Emperor. That's cool if fans like more stories that extend the Saga, but I was expecting more. Shame on me for believing this Trilogy would be something bigger, but it really isn't, IMO.

 

So before you gave up on it, what did you think/hope would happen?

 

The beautiful message of the ST is that the force belongs to all of us, you don't have to be "nobility" or "royalty" anyone can be a hero!

Edit: This was sarcasm in case some people didn't notice, I'm getting some suspicious likes.

 

#Snoke is Plagueis.
I think that could've been the plan at a point during the production, but they chose not the reveal his identity in order not to dissapoint the fans by killing off Plagueis so fast. Anyways, they've made the right choice. Kylo being the main badguy was the best possible outcome imo. He's the most interesting character of the new bunch.

That has nothing to do with being different from TFA.

That also has nothing to do with being different from TFA. It's not like TFA set some kind of path for a main theme... It was riddled with JJ's "mystery boxes" without any real direction or plan. While I agree with you partially, it's early to call this yet imo. ESB didn't have a main theme either until the last half hour, and it was RotJ which perfected it.

The PT directly contradicts the OT many times though. It also told a story which was 90% already told by Ben Kenobi in ANH. The only part which wasn't told was how and why exactly Vader turned, which imo was poorly done to say the least...

I'm looking forward to the complaints. What is it that fanboys will whine about this time? Ehrenreich not being Solo-ish enough? Too Solo-ish enough? Too much humour? Not enough humour? And so on, and so on...

 

I was expecting something different in terms of story, and just not another republic vs empire (now substituted with First order vs Rebellion) and Luke vs Vader/Emperor substituted with Rey vs Kylo/Snoke.

Here is a quote from Lucas in 1983 about the ST, " "The Third Trilogy will be more ethereal, and deal with moral and philosophical problems along with the rebuilding of the republic." He talked about how there would be problems in rebuilding the republic and it wouldn't be that easy after the Empire fell.

This Trilogy is all over the place, as I honestly don't know what the theme is and I don't think it will have one at the end of Episode 9. Now I will gladly eat crow if Episode 9 does a good job of tying the ST together, and the Saga together. But you asked me why I wasn't hyped for Episode 9 and this is why.

No doubt that ESB and ROTJ rearranged the ANH story into the redemption of Vader, but here are the 2 differences between the evolution of the OT and the ST.

Lucas wrote Star Wars (ANH) as a standalone movie in 1977 not knowing if there would be sequels. Obviously he left Vader alive just in case, but the movie can stand on it's own. Even though there were a lot of unanswered questions in ANH, the narrative was never built around that, as blowing up the Death Star was the MAIN plot of the movie, as said in the Opening Crawl.

TFA was not written that way, as the whole narrative is mystery boxes and a 'To be continued.....' at the end. So the narrative in ANH and TFA are much different in that Lucas could take the story wherever he wanted for ESB, where TFA was locked into Rey meeting Luke, showing Snoke as this god like figure (opposed to The Emperor who was referred to once in ANH and never shown).

The other difference is Lucas wrote the OT and PT himself so atleast he was following through on the changes to his narrative. RJ and JJ probably have a different vision as RJ didn't want Snoke as the lead villain, so he killed him. That is why this Trilogy is all over the place, and it probably would have flowed better if they just stuck with either RJ or JJ write the whole skid.

 

Honestly, I Was Expecting Luke To Act The Way He Did, Sure, There Were Some Problems, Vut The Movie Is GREAT, Try Watching Ot A Second Time, You Shouldn’t Have Put Your Expectations So High, I Didn’t Think It Would Be Better Than My Favorite Star Wars Movie (Don’t Hate On Me For Saying This): Attack Of The Clones, And Now The Last Jedi Is My Second Favorite Star Wars Movie. 8/10

 

I Heard It’s Better The Second Time Around Is All