Insulted by last Jedi? Does Disney deserve anymore of your money after this?

You really believe it means Rey is no one? Really? I would say it could mean she doesn't know her past or her future but in all instances like in the present she only has/had/will have herself to rely on. But who knows what JJ will makeup about her in ep9? Its got to be more interesting than she is no one but mysteriously is powerful and knows how to use the force with no training. I didn't mention Reylo but it didn't amount to anything anyway. At the end of the movie he is still on the dark side and she is on the light, so what? Depressed Luke? Yeah you are really selling the story. So you know about Snoke? You know who Rey really is? You know why Kylo turned dark initially to be of concern to Luke? You know why Luke was completely out of character when he considered killing his nephew? You know why Rose all of a sudden had feelings for Finn out of nowhere and why she risked the lives of the resistance to save his? Do you know why Captain Phasma is such a useless character? Do you know why Leia didn't imprison Poe for his reckless act at the start of the movie and instead told him to sit around, and watch by the sidelines so that Holdo could tell him nothing about their plan which caused an avoidable mutiny in order to teach him some sort of lesson? After Poe held a blaster at Holdo, Why did Holdo and Leia in the end act like Poe was really alright, the cheeky little thing despite continually disobeying orders, causing mutiny and losing many resistance lives in the process? It was like a mother and aunt berrating their child and nephew for doing something a bit naughty and saying " you'll sit on the naughty step till you've thought about what you've done young man. " As strong authorative women they may have well said "he's alright and after all boys will be boys". It was all in such matronising tones it made me a bit queasy. That whole thing was a big mystery to me. Yeah I missed such a great story I can only surmise we must have been watching different movies.

 

I didn't mention that she was related to anyone we know like Han, Obi wan,Luke ect. I just don't believe the story she was told by Kylo. This will probably be another in the longline of misdirects. I don't know why the scene of her multiple reflections objectively means that her parents are literally nobodies. It's perfectly possible that her parents are people we haven't been introduced to yet who are more important than how kylo described them. It may also be possible that Rey doesn't have any parents at all but was artificially created maybe by snoke for his grander plan (Snoke isn't dead, what a surprise another misdirection). There are other possibilities than she was just born to nobody parents who sold her for drink or whatever and she just happens to know how to do everything with the force that takes a Jedi years to master like the jedi mind trick. Can't you see how that would be such a ridiculous explanation and the result of such lazy writing? In fact if that is the only explanation for Rey it wouldn't surprise me at all and only confirm what I think of Abrams writing ability.

 

I agree with most of your points except one. By saying not in your words along the lines of Kennedy isn't really to blame the story group is lets Kennedy off the hook. I don't actually know much about the writing process with Disney Star Wars movies but what I do know is Kennedy must have been happy with the results and she has the final say as far as I can see. She is supposed to know what works for Star Wars and what doesn't. I know that she didn't have any issue getting rid of Lord and Miller when she didn't like their approach to the movie - she has that power! So if she didn't agree with JJ and Rian's direction she would have put a stop to it or actively changed it where needed. Just as Lucas did with marquand during the making of Return Of the Jedi. You have to hold Kennedy accountable for all product coming out of Lucasfilm!

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2018 ---

It didn't mean that. It meant that:

1. Rey knew the answer herself
2. Rey was alone
3. She needed to find answers from someone else

...and a few more things.



What would be the point in that? And even if this is the case, they're still essentially "no one". The no one simply means that she isn't in the Skywalker/Palpatine/Kenobi bloodlines.



Nope. This doesn't work at all. For many reasons that are clear if you just review what happens. And because Rey herself confirms her parents were nobodies.



That isn't lazy writing - it's the best way to create conflict within Rey's character.
As for the "Jedi abilities" - again, this has been discussed over and over. She has a strong connection to the Force. She was already competent in combat. She saw what was possible from Kylo Ren and took things from his mind. She then, through this knowledge and belief (that Luke didn't have early on) saw that she was able to manipulate the Stormtrooper. We're shown 2 scenes in TLJ where she shows off her swordplay (training by the rock and then fighting Luke) - clearly she has good abilities, now heightened by the Force. Her turning out to have some kind of Force heritage doesn't add anything to this.[/QUOTE]
What conflict? Other than "this is kinda freaky that all of a sudden I know how to do these amazing things and I don't know why? Yes I can see how she would be tortured by the revelation. There is nowhere in the the film that shows Rey taking knowledge from Kylo on how to do things like jedi mind trick. The force isn't like the matrix where you just connect and download information. When masters like Yoda and Obi Wan reach out to the force they feel or hear whispers of things. Or when Leia "sensed" Luke was in trouble and knew roughly where to find him. They don't obtain from the force detailed instructions on how to do stuff otherwise why was there a jedi temple with padawans from an early age learning for years from masters how to do stuff when they could have received instant knowledge telepathically? It doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it. And the same old "well she is just strong in the force" doesn't cut it. Anyone that knows a thing or two about star wars is that combat with a staff are completely different worlds to fighting with a lightsaber. These are basic Star Wars principles that JJ and Rian are simply ignoring. In Star Wars lore Jedis and Sith have had to learn for years different fighting styles of both the double ended lightsaber and lightsaber. Different approaches to combat with these diffetent weapons. But of course Rey knows how to fight with a lightsaber because she waved a stick around quite a bit in her time. I thought for once in a Star Wars movie we were at last going to get some decent lightsaber training, but no. It totally undermines the skill necessary to fight with a lightsaber.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---

I'm not completely disagreeing with your explanation I just think its a bit dumb to accept that Rey can do all of these things just because she is strong in the force. Im just desperately hoping there is more to it than that and if it isn't god help the franchise and everything we have learnt about it for all these years.

 

Well said. You are basically backing up my reason for this thread and I love that. For people that don't get why some of us don't automatically desire to see ep 9 at the cinema ASAP, they are completely missing the point of this thread. Of course if you loved TLJ or merely enjoyed it enough will pay to see ep 9 at the cinema. Those people don't see our issue with Disney so of course they are willing to give them more money, it goes without saying. Im just relieved that there are at least a small band of discontented Rebels (apologies to the Imperial Pro Disney Army for the connotation. I'm not that sorry actually hahahaha) that want to take a stand. Thank God I'm not alone in this.

 

Don't you just love it when someone keeps rating comments as clouded with nothing to backup their rating. Explain why its clouded please otherwise your rating doesn't hold much water.

 

Heroic? Yes he cared about his son but did he have to do it on a bridge over an abyss with no hand rails? Surely if you are reaching out to your homicidal son who is known to be mentally unstable, as well as dangerously powerful, you wouldn't be so stupid to put yourself in such a vulnerable situation? Han risk taker? sure, but he wasn't a moron. Of course it wouldn't have made such a dramatic death but do we have to suspend belief at the expense of a beloved character? I guess we do. Han dies for that brat of a son? Why would Ben Solo do that? As part of his training? To prove that he is worthy? Why does this mean so much to him that he would kill his father?

I couldn't care less if she is no one. If she was someone it wouldn't make her character any less boring.

Im not really enjoying the story very much so far. I dont really like the characters old and new. The old characters aren't as likeable and interesting as they were in the original trilogy (but who cares as they are all being killed off one by one) and all of the new characters have nothing really going for them. Its just a dreadful trilogy so far and I can't see episode 9 being any better.

 

The words "failed marriage" shouldn't be a situation in a Star Wars movie period. This is a space fantasy, an intergalactic fairy tale of Good against Evil. Lucas wanted to make his own mythology in the setting of a galaxy far, far away. As a Star Wars fan I don't want to be reminded of the day to day mundanity of real life. A wedding ok I'll go with that. In fairy tales (and Star Wars isn't the exception) you don't have a divorce because that just doesn't feel right. THIS ISN'T SHREK!!!

The story for Han should have been with Leia because that is how it ended at the end of Return Of The Jedi. His character arc from smuggler to reluctant Hero to honoured Hero to General to a Prince of the Realm (joke) really is the stuff of fairy tales and a great story arc which was completed in Return of The Jedi. In ep 7 we learn that he split from Leia, his son for some reason goes off the rails and he goes back to smuggling. WHY? It's such a terrible story line and to me disrespectful to a character many people looked up to. The fact that he dies to save a son we don't care about and we have seen no interaction between them and he kills his father for no obvious reason is such a stupid end for such a great character. His story arc like Luke's, Finn's, Poe's, in fact all the male characters lets face it, their story arcs are so poorly executed in the movie it is pathetic. Like you say all of the men we looked up to in the original trilogy are failed losers. There isn't one good reason or motivation for why their characters were reduced to that. Luke would not have stood over his NEPHEW conflicted whether he should kill him or not. He was willing to sacrifice his own life to save his father's soul because he sensed there was good in him, there was conflict within Vader. You see there was conflict in Kylo which is why he struggled to kill his father and again he stopped himself from killing his mother. So it would suggest he isn't beyond saving. Like Vader there must be some good in him. But no, we are supposed to buy Luke's premeditated plan to enter Kylo's room, his NEPHEW with the intention of murdering him. It makes no sense no matter how you try to convince yourself. There is no continuity with the old characters motivations. it's just so forced with an agenda to re-shape characters like Luke to tell a certain story at the expense of their characters and what we know about them. You want to talk about head canon, You ST fanboys are all head canon because it's the only way you can justify this s**t. I'm all for character progression and if an established character falls from grace that's ok but it has to make sense, it has to be in context and it has to follow the tone of what has gone before otherwise it's jarring, it's disjointed and it's disrespectful. I wish people would understand that. These are characters that are cherished, adored for many, many years. They are not disposable to move a story along. If you want to portray them as flawed it needs to be earned. The audience needs to know exactly why they do something out of character.

Realistic approach? What exactly is more realistic about it? We had flawed characters in the original trilogy. Flawed characters is fine but what is more important than realism is when it's believable. There are so many unbelievable things in Last Jedi it was depressing. What is realistic about Finn flying into that battering ram energy field that is destroying that huge door of the cave? Especially the ship Finn was in, it was so rickety looking he would have been destroyed before he got anywhere near that machine. Why did Rose save Finn for love at the expense of the lives in the cave? There was no romantic chemistry between them whatsoever. The chemistry between Han & Leia particularly in Empire was believable. Finn and Rose not believable. Luke needing to see good in his Father? Believable. Luke contemplating murdering his nephew? not believable. Holdo is appreciated for her noble sacrifice for the Resistance but Finn is virtually called stupid for his attempt at sacrifice by Rose? She grieves for the loss of her sister who sacrificed her life for a greater cause? believable. Stopping Finn, someone she has only known five minutes and has fallen in love with out of nowhere? not earned, not believable. I could go on but I don't want to write a book about it. The point is the original trilogy was written in a more skilful way in terms of character development and character relationships. You see Han and Leia's love develop over three movies. You see the conflict develop between Luke and Vader/Anakin over three movies. In the ST Trilogy character development and character relationships are glossed over, not earned and rushed. It was a problem I had in ep7 and ep 8 is even worse for that. I didn't buy Poe and Finn's instant buddy relationship at the start of ep 7, it was so forced. As I said Kylo and Han had no on screen relationship development and we are supposed to care about them in one scene at the end? Rey and Luke's interactions on the Island were so boring. Most of it consists of an unrecognizable Luke not willing to train her. Even when he does sort of train her it's a bit lacklustre. I expected so much more. missed opportunity. In fact it should have been an opportunity for Luke to explain his actions in a believable way and some exposition about the knights of Ren. Instead we got the stupid bedroom scene. I could go on but I can't be bothered to type anymore. I think I made my point, these movies suck!

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2018 ---

Did you think Luke's decision to enter Ben Solo's room at night with the intent of killing him seemed out of character for someone who was prepared to sacrifice his own life to save the soul of his father? There are many problems with TLJ but I'd thought I'd mention that one. I find it difficult to accept a fan of 40 years would find that believable.