Jumanji tops The Last Jedi over holiday weekend.

I agree as I was right here with ya screaming all week that there was a backlash and nobody was listening.

 

i remember that last week end , the predictions for the second week end were from 85 to 95 millions even 100 at the higher.

 

While I think TFA was not perfect having open questions and plot threads after the first of 3 movies is perfectly fine. There needs to be mystery as the story moves forward. In my oppinion it was mostly Rian who failed to follow up the questions in TFA. Even if you aren't particularly interested in a character like Snoke simply killing him off without giving him the tiniest bit of background was 100% Rian's fault. Setting up a mystery box in part 1/3 is not a problem ignoring the mysterybox in part 2/3 however...

 

It's not a "for sure, definitely" comment. It was more of an "Oh no, what if it doesn't hit a billion?" type of thought. It may still get there, but with the decline, who really knows? We'll see in a couple of weeks.

 

The fans will hate anything new and unexpected. If they listened to the fans, the saga would never change. They need to be brought kicking and screaming into the future of the series. Otherwise, Star Wars is doomed to be nothing but endlessly repetitious, boring and predictable.

 

I think that is more of the expectations of the fans fault. We knew very little about Emperor in the ST. Nothing much other than he was Vader's master and he must obey him. RJ and LFL have reminded of this in their comments. From that, I didn't expect any more. Would I have liked more? sure... but I didn't expect it because we were told we wouldn't learn much and didn't learn much of Palpatine either. I think he will be left for Novels now.

 

No one has a problem with something different, but it has to be good. People don’t like this movie cause they don’t think it’s good.

As I said, Luke flying a kite for 2 hours is different and original, but is it good?

KK deserves major blame for not forcing JJ and RJ to hash our key plot points so the narrative atleast flows from one movie to another. RJ essentially made a standalone movie that was all him and I respect that. The problem is that it’s part 2 of a Trilogy and part 8 of the Saga, So you have to respect the previous material. That’s why fans aren’t coming back.

 

I have heard the comparison with the OT time and time again but it doesn't hold up for multiple reasons:

a) The OT was created in a vacuum. There were no preceding films or books and thus no older narratives that needed to be taken into consideration. Soke does not exist in a vacuum which means that a lot more explaining is required when introducing him as a new character. Take a look at the rule of the two for example. Before the PT there was no such rule. Now that we know of this rule we need to explain how a dark forceuser can exist outside of the Master/apprentice relationship.
b) The empire, led by the emperor was a intergalactic dictatorship in full control of the Galaxy. The empire was already where they wanted to be, in a position of ultimate power. It goes without saying that their goals would all be directed towards not losing that power. This means that the emperor was intrinsicly motivated to fight any resistance or uprising and we didn't need an explaination for it. If I asked you what a dictatorship is most afraid of your answer would logically be "losing power". The FO however is not in the position of complete power. Snoke wasn't the ruler of the galaxy. His motivations can't be explained away by deducting them based on his standing in the galaxy like we could in case of the Emperor.
c) Star Wars is known for it's "small galaxy syndrome". We fans have learnt over the course of decades that every important character seems to cross paths with many other important character in the galaxy. The comic relief C3-PO is, technically speaking, the son of the main villain Darth Vader. In a world where connections between characters have been established so frequently by the creator(s) of the franchise it is only natural to assume that someone like Snoke has to be of some significance to the other characters.
d) Everyone in the Galaxy seems to know Snoke. His origins and motivations seem to be obvious to anyone but the viewer. While Vader's true indetity was unknown to most characters in the OT (and also to the viewer) the same cannot be said about Snoke.
e) Interviews, visual dictionaries and books have suggested that Snoke is indeed a carefully planned out character deliberately shrouded in mystery. Andy Serkis stated in an interview that Snoke was more powerful than both, Vader and the Emperor. Rian printed a sticker saying "your Snoke theroy sucks" as if there was some secret waiting to be uncovered. Disney understandably didn't shut down speculation about Snoke. But they also added fuel to the theories deliberately misleading audiences about the inportance of Snoke (or lack thereof). One example for this would be Leia who can already feel Snoke's dark influence tainting the soul of her unborn baby (Bloodline novel). You can't put information like this in a book and then expect fans to be satisfied with no background as to why Snoke and Kylo are working together at all.

 

I totally understand what you are saying and getting at. But for me, it still comes down to fan expectations and what they think they should get today verses what we were told and they planned to give us. Just because we think we should get more doesn't mean we will, and doesn't make it wrong on their part. I just find it hard to be mad about something that you were told before hand. Just me though.

I don't think Snoke is finished with, nor Luke, or any of the others. We will learn what happened to Luke in the past 30 years. Its not going to all be presented on film though. Not everyone read Bloodlines, or other books, therefor those questions and all the others are not going to be answered on film, generally. Once IX is done, Im sure we will get a lot more information on people, events and the likes through the EU books and comics. Can't give it all at one time. There is no longevity or money in that.

 

If that’s the case, then why did fans like TFA? Do you think fans had in mind for 30 years Han/Leia would be separated? Do you think fans were expecting Luke to be in the movie for 2 minutes? I was furious when I read the spoiler. But it was different when I saw it on screen.

TFA was good, the new characters resonated with me so I went with the narrative with the OT characters. I would have done the same with TLJ no matter what way RJ took the story. The problem is I just don’t think it was executed well in so many areas and it isn’t a good movie.

 

I totally respect and understand your view. I enjoyed the movie myself. No, the whole ST isn't how I had pictured our heroes would end up. But my view is also tainted with the EU since the Heir to the Empire trilogy and my on imagination. I don't think that should get in the way. IMO. Just as with the PT, this is the continuation of the story on film. What we get is what we get. Good or bad is a subjective point of view. People who like it will not be convinced otherwise nor will people who didn't. Bashing the film and others because we didn't get what we want accomplishes nothing.

 

What made TLJ so “new and unexpected”?

That Rey isn’t a Skywalker?

That Kylo killed Snoke in the 2nd movie rather than the third?

There are some new ideas in TLJ, but it is far from new/original.

That’s actually one of the films biggest flaws.

 

If Disney takes as disrespectful a position as you towards SW fans, they deserve whatever box office consequence that comes their way.

I don't know why people who liked the movie have to talk down to those who didn't.

I didn't love the movie overall. I thought there were terrific parts but the parts I thought were bad were distractingly bad and I just didn't think you had to fundamentally change SW lore to make a different movie.

I thought it was OK overall, but considering how excited I was for Luke's return, OK felt like a massive letdown.

 

I agree and I think it goes the other way around too.

To me, Star Wars is a personal journey. For our characters and for us as individuals. What really matters is how we feel. We may like or we may not. That is our journey just like the characters. We may like it, the other may not. It's ours to choose. I just don't understand all the negativity and bashing to make our personal journey everyone's personal journey. This board has always been better and above it.

 

And what these guys seem to be ignoring is the fact that quite a few films have fallen short over the last year, and they are using the fact that it isn't keeping up with TPM as a baton with which to beat the film. After 10 days of release the film is at $750 million, in a year when overall film attendance is down (think of all the films in the last 18 months that have disappointed). A film that cost what, $400 million to make and market is about to make not only all of it's money back, but double its investment quite effortlessly.

Once school let out the attendance has shot up. Sure, today will probably see a drop, as will tomorrow (I'd expect), but either way, the film is going to end up number one this year. And it was never going to match TFA, so I also don't get what these guys are going on about.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2017 ---

And respect is a two way street my friend. There are PLENTY of people who dislike the film and think those who like it are just idiots. Look around on the boards. You'll see it goes both directions.

 

TLJ has had the worst Friday to Friday drop of any Star Wars film.

Think about that.

Worse than ATOTC.


From a business perspective, you gotta wonder why they okayed a sequel to the Skywalker saga that essentially told fans to grow up and move past the Skywalkers?

Kind of strange that they are so eager to move beyond skywalkers, Jedi, etc- even in the main saga films.

They have tons of opportunités to do that in stand alones, tv, books, rians new trilogy, etc.

Why so motivated to do it in the main saga?

Plus how do you okay a film that repeatedly beats the audience over the head with ‘let the past die’ ....when that same film reuses MANY scenes, themes, and general plot of previous films??

 

TLJ is collapsing on Box Office, I would risk with that classic boring repetitive Star Wars.

 

Well, let's see... Harrison Ford said he didn't REALLY want to come back, so they probably told him they'd kill off Han Solo and that was what got him to sign on. Mark and Carrie seemed more willing, but seriously, a 60 year old Luke Skywalker? Hollywood may not admit it, but young sexy stars sell tickets. Yeah, we all wanted to see Luke as a full Jedi, maybe aged 15 years on from the OT, but that ship sailed (you can thank George for that one).

As for the idea they are trying to move away from the Skywalker family, last time I checked, Kylo Ren is Ben Solo/Skywalker. And while it looks like Rey is nobody, she could turn out to be somebody. Personally I prefer her as the nobody, the "everyman" but that's just me.

After what, 12 hours of Jedi in the films, I don't blame them for wanting to expand the view of the galaxy, and that's what I think they are doing. No one said they are moving away from the Jedi. We will probably see Rey rebuild the Jedi order. Let's see what happens in IX.

 

Very unfortunate News for every Star Wars fan, whatever we wanted from episode VIII, nobody wanted this.
When Wehrner von Braun was asked what fuel propells rockets, he said, hidrogen, than someone said to him, no Professor, rockets are fueled by Money.

FORBES:

"So, here’s the indisputably lousy news: Rian Johnson’s Star Wars: The Last Jedi lost more money between its first and second weekends than any film ever, by a lot."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...-drops-69-tops-100m-losers-club/#414da0c4dc05