Kylo the Anti-Hero

maybe he end sup killing snoke and taking the lead of the FO but turns it into a force for good instead

 

Interresting.. that would be an unexpected twist

 

Or maybe he is just like the Vortigern 's character in the latest version of King Arthur (The legend of the sword ). A guy who really love his family but loves the dark power more ( addiction ) he had to kill them, and it was a true sacrifice ) and who seemed to have been sent away when he was young and didn't appreciate the initiation he got there either..

“When people fear you, I mean really fear you, it’s the most intoxicating feeling a man can possess.” Vortigern


remplace people fear you by the dark force

 

yeah similar to what anakin's original intention was with padme until he...you know, nearly burned to death

 

Kylo really has no makings of anti-hero.
He does awful horrible things for all the wrong reasons.

An Anti-Hero does the right thing for the wrong reasons or does it outside the scope of moral goodness.

The Punisher is an anti-hero. He kills people. He flat out kills bad guys. He doesn't do it for truth, justice and the American way. He does it because he's decided they are bad and should be killed. He does it out of a drive for revenge.

Kylo Ren just straight up murders billions because his grandfather was Darth Vader. He does not do the right thing in any way shape or form.

 

I think he wants to be bad and kills the light that are still in him. He probably hates the light side because he truly thinks, there are the bad ones and he loves the feeling of the darkness, that makes him strong when the light makes him weak.

He isn't an anti hero, he killed innocents people. He killed his father, and even if your father wasn't the best dad , ( I doubt Han beat him on daily basis, come home drunk , and terribly abused him ) it's not a reason to kill him.

 

I honestly have no idea where Disney is taking his character, though I think it will turn out well whatever they do.

 

I think the porgs would make better anti heroes

 

it's all a POV, really...he thinks that what he is doing is good, and for all the wrong reasons...but if he switches sides, then it's still the other side of the same coin unless he is persuaded otherwise by the real honest truth.

 

That's not really an anti-hero though. That's a complex villain for sure. Or a villain protagonist.
But an anti-hero is a legitimately defined term that has meaning. He is not it. Using this explanation, The Joker is an anti-hero. Darth Vader is an anti-hero. Jason Vorhees is an anti-hero. Any villain can be.

He doesn't do anything heroic. He murders his father and billions of civilians.

Conversely, The Punisher (established anti-hero) does heroic things. He rescues people. He stops crime and criminals. He just doesn't do it for the right reason. He does it not to save people but to punish those who do the crime. (in the comics). He walks an incredibly fine line. He never hurts the innocent. Unless you can establish that everyone in the Hosnian system was either a criminal or enemy combatant in a war....

Mary Sue is a vague ill-defined term. That's why a debate (albeit flimsy) can be had if Rey is one or not. Anti-hero has a pretty narrow meaning.

I know it seems silly and pedantic to be so picky but we do sort of live in times where words are in danger of losing meaning and I think it's important to understand them and use them as correctly as possible.

 

I just want 2 pull his arms out of his sockets.

 

I'd say If Kylo Ren falls into any trope its more the Byronic Hero than the Anit Hero. As a Byronic hero can also be a villain.

 

Oh the byrony!

 

I agree with Royles, but let me caveat. I don't really mind if Kylo is redeemed in some way, but I also don't mind and rather prefer story's sake that we just get a villain rather than a repetitious redemption story even if there are specific details different from Vader/Anakin's redemption story. I'm not against redemption stories, but we already have people claiming TFA is a carbon copy of ANH, we don't really need the entirety of the ST being compared to the OT in that sense.

I digress. I don't see Kylo as an Anti-Hero nor a Byronic Hero as it pertains to the latter's original literary meaning. One of the major issues with literary terms is that people can always come along and making a convincing argument for everyone to embrace and began reshaping the original definition of the term. If we go by hard, original definitions, then Byronic Hero/Heroine is just someone mostly upset about his/her past or someone who thinks they are heroic, but really isn't in a sense.

I think this gets more into interpretation than actuality. Attaching the term "hero" to someone's actions if said person thinks their actions are "heroic" does not make them a "hero" when one truly breaks it down. Kylo hasn't done anything heroic regardless of what he thinks, but do we really know what Kylo thinks about his actions beyond thinking he is continuing Vader's work? What work would that be? Is that Anakin's naive youthful belief that all people should bow down before one tyrannical ruler-ship in order to invoke peace while ignoring all the atrocities said dictatorship would bring? Of which he acted out and assisted in actualizing when he took on the identity of Darth Vader? I would say prior to Vader, Anakin's thoughts and actions could have been considered Anti-Heroic or Byronic-Heroic or Tragically-Heroic in some sense, but after embracing the Darkside, Anakin just became a villain.

So the question is really what are Kylo's thoughts. What does he think he is achieving? Aside from reading EU material, I don't think there is much to go on from the movies alone. Still, even if Kylo thinks he is being heroic, that simply means he's being delusional and in denial, if not fully deceived and/or mind-controlled of his actions in reality. He killed his father, he ordered the murder of innocents, set by and agreed to the murder of billions of people on several planets just to destroy an opposing organization and I imagine there are more atrocities committed by him off-screen and in coming stories.

I think it's a hard case to make that Kylo is still in his current sense somehow still heroic and someone to be totally sympathized with unless it is shown he is not in control of his own actions, not making his own choices or some traumatic experience served as the catalyst for his downfall in which the "good guys" had a hand in doing. And not something small, but something big. However, I just don't see it fleshing out in the way some want it to.

People will still remember he struck down Han with so little as a second afterthought. And I say this because immediately after he was shot he moved on to his next goal...kill Finn and Rey.

Let me end this with a reminder. I don't mind a redemption arc for Kylo although I prefer we just have a villain. I don't mind if he becomes a heroic character after said redemption arc, I just think in his current existence he is just a villain with some backstory which led him down this path.

 

I think Ren is best described as a villain protagonist. He has his own story and arc that is the main story of the new movies. he shares it with Luke/Leia/Rey but he's a central key part in this story more than just being a villain, like Vader was back in ANH. His story adds depth and needed contrast.

Ren can have a redemption arc but I still maintain that it has to come in a new trilogy. By the end of ep 9 he has to be where we all suspect Vader was pre-ANH.

 

I don't think that Kylo, in his current state, could be an anti-hero. But I don't think he's as unredeemable as some people say.

I for one would like to see Kylo redeemed, but unlike Vader, he would have to live with what he's done. I like the idea of a good guy Ben Solo in future films who has to walk out some kind of penance--a disgraced samurai sort of figure. We've not really had that in Star Wars before but it would fit the universe pretty well.

 

I think that by the end of this movie, Rey and Kylo will have teamed up, after each being disillusioned with their masters. The plot of the IX will be which side they choose, if any. So I don't think Kylo will necessarily turn to the light, but I think he may try to stop being outright evil... if that makes any sense.

 

I don't mind a redeemable Kylo, but the problem with a post-ST redemption story for him is that J.J. and R.J. claim the Skywalker saga is over with in Episode 9. Anything after that, I suspect, will have a Skywalker, if one is in a new story, as a side importance. Thus, Kylo, or in this sense, Ben would take a side role on his journey towards his penance.

 

I keep getting shutdown when i mention anything about this. But the new trailers and TV spots make me think even more so that I am right that Kylo/Ben and Rey are moving to the center. They are becoming the Gray Jedi - though I don't think the will use that title. It looks obvious to me that Rey is going to - at least - flirt with the dark side. And I think it's also obvious that Kylo is not going to blowup the ship that Leia is on. He is going to have an even stronger light-side conflict in TLJ. I have mentioned that maybe the balance is the Jedi and Sith(DS users) coming to the center. But I am always shutdown with "The balance is about the cosmic and living force, not the light and dark side". But IMO, the evidence in the trailers points to Kylo & Rey joining forces either in the end of TLJ or in IX.