Last Jedi Civil Discussion Thread (No Hatred for Anothers Opinion)

you see with sc-fi i've always been of the opinion of while the science and technology maybe and you have to suspend disbelief. But becuase of this it is even more important for plots and characters to be coherent and make sense. Also uses of technology or magic(ie the force) have to be consistent. I find the argument that characters don't have to act in away that makes sense because its sc-fi lazy, whether your film is set in the past present future, the characters have to act in a realistic coherent way to make it a good film. You also have to stick to the rules that you set out for yourself. Not just have change those rules becuase it easy easy and convenient and go well its sc-fi it doesn't need to make sense.

Also i'm a big fan of metaphors and themes, but that can't be an excuse for the plot not to make sense, they have to go hand in hand. you can't just have a film with great themes thats plot falls apart with tiniest bit of scrutiny and then go its ok the film has good themes and great Metaphors. Becuase you may have the greats metaphors ever but if you set them in a film that it is a bit incoherent and full of flaws then then the impact of those metaphors is going to be lost or massively diluted.

 

*shrug*
I've been doing it since A New Hope. I can rip that story to pieces if I want to (several articles back then did). It's really easy to do.
Lucas isn't a great writer. He's an amazing conceptualist though.

It's just more fun to treat it for what it is: a fairy tale in space.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Film is awesome.Masterpiece.

Period.

Rey parents are not explained and we wait EP IX to see greater twist,explaining of the mysterious bond between the 2.

Period.

P.s.Hux ended to be so pathetic that he is not worth to die on the film.
I hope EP IX.side note will be that he wrongfuly navigated his ship into an asteroid believing it was wise.

 

for me the last jedi just had way to many for me to ignore, while their are plot holes in new hope, ( i mean they made rogue one to basically explain one of those plot holes as to why the death star can be blown up with one missile) watching the last jedi it was constant every 5 mins having to suspend disbelief on plot points and character decisions that didn't seem to make sense. i just walked out going wow that was a mess.

I also find the argument that, well yes this film didn't make a lot of sense, but thats fine becuase if you really study the other Star Wars films they won't make sense either really depressing.

Especially cos its star wars, i want to love it, i want to give it the benefit of the doubt, i just couldn't its much of an even mess.

But like i said im glad you enjoyed it, i wish i could.

 

That is Star Wars. Star Wars means something different for everyone. What you think is a star wars movie is different from what I think a star wars movie and Joe Smoe that is across the globe ideas on what makes a Star Wars would be different from you and I. There will never be another Star Wars movie that can out do ESB because the fan base will never allow it. People want SW to bring back the familiar feeling when they first saw SW but that won't happen because people get older and it rarely has the same effect. Had they shown Luke pull a Samurai Jack and take on the FO on Crait that would of been hated on too. My point is SW fan base is so big that it is literally impossible to make a movie that the whole fan base will universally enjoy. We can't even come to a general conensus on what makes a SW movie. SW is always going to be divisive. It happen with the old EU between the Thrawn Trilogy and Yuuzhan Vong, it happen with PT (which nearly killed SW), now it happening with ST and it's going to happen with Han Solo next May.

 

I saw the The Last Jedi on opening day and still have not had a second viewing.
Its like I'm avoiding it and would rather do some gardening or go to the gym or something.
I have been a StarWars fan since seeing the OT as a child and my children got the prequels as their introduction.
I came out of the cinema disappointed and it saddens me that i didnt enjoy it as much as others. My friends and family felt the same and maybe being such long term fans we were expecting something familiar , just a sprinkle of George in there or something.
I'm not a Disney basher , i enjoyed Rogue One and enjoyed the Force Awakens.
I really envy the people that love it , its just that i can't love it.
Its the 1st StarWars film that i havnt had repeat viewings in the cinema .
What also is sad is the attacks on peoples opinions about this film.
I have never seen this much fan division over a film.
If people love it theyre 'in bed with Disney' or out to burn other fans.
If you hate it 'you are not a real StarWars fan ' crap just is......well .crap
If you like Brussel Sprouts and i don't ,it doesn't make me less of a fan of vegetables.
I would just rather Potatoes or Corn
Its all a matter of taste.
.

 

Thanks for your reply. I will not change my view on the matter just as much as you are not going to change yours. Let the readers now decide which is more convincing. This is not a zero-sum-game.

.....................

So let us fight this out the old fashion way. I challenge you to a duel, manno-o-manno. Choose your weapon and lets see who will be the victor. I call all the gods as my witness

 

an elegant response, i suspect the readers will be as divided as our selfs.... if any of them read our response we both wrote a hell of a lot.

ok ill duel you.... but only if its over a lava pit or on a ridiculously high gantry without hand rails.

 

I don’t begrudge anyone for loving, liking, or hating the movie as it’s all our opinion and that’s how we feel.

I liked TFA and R1 so I was shocked when I didn’t like TLJ. Disney was 2 for 2 with me in the SW universe so I figured TLJ would be 3 for 3. I usually see every SW movie multiple times in the theater, but I haven’t even wanted to go back to see TLJ.

I’m not a nitpicker as some of the arguments about SW films go a bit too far. I’m a character driven fan as I follow the characters and I love seeing an arc of each Trilogy in a micro and macro sense.

I feel Disney’s biggest mistake is not letting RJ or JJ write the whole Trilogy as TFA and TLJ feel like 2 standalone films that don’t connect. I think if RJ wrote Episode 7 with his vision of the Trilogy in mind it would be much different then TFA and I think there wouldn’t be as much backlash from the fans for Episode 8.

It’s a bummer cause I love SW and have been a fan since 1977 but this movie didn’t connect with me on any level. I’m envious of fans that love it but you can’t force yourself to love something, as either it resonates with each of us or it doesn’t.

 

LOL

YIELD! YIELD I SAY!

 

This guy in the video feels the same ways as you, after listen to him i start liking the Last Jedi but on a different view and way

 

And here was I thinking that 1500 word review written by one of the great screenwriters of our age telling why The Last Jedi is a masterpiece was a good review. THIS WAS MINDBLOWING.

Youtube has so much trash, this one included.

But on a more serious note.

How are you liking TLJ in a different way?

 

What screenwriter do you mean?

 

I do feel in a similar way even though the Prequels were my entry point into the saga. I have seen TLJ twice but that's still only half as many times as TFA and R1. It feels like it doesn't quite belong into the SW galaxy. At least not fot the time being. I have high hope's for IX though. JJ showed that he understood the essence of SW when TFA was released. TLJ will force him to not play it save and in combination with ability to catch that classic SW feel it might turn out to be a great movie. MAybe it will even retroactively put TLJ into context making it feel less disjointed.

 

I liked the film, but it wasn't perfect, not by a country mile.

What didn't work for me...

I'm with Mark Hamill, in that the Jedi wouldn't have given up. Many have compared Luke to Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan went into exile with a purpose. To protect Luke. Luke ran away, and that doesn't tally with the Luke I came to know and love reading the books before and after the Disney buy-out. The thing is though, we don't know how long before TFA the temple killings happened, so we don't quite know how long Luke had been on the island.

Also the scene with Leia being Mary Poppins, there'd not been much mention of Leia using The Force in the novels I've read, and all of a sudden she's able to use it to survive something pretty bad.

DJ and Phasma, frankly they didn't add anything to the plot for me. And DJ's behaviour was inevitable, you could see it coming a mile and a half away!!

What did work...

- Yoda was brilliant. I loved the fact that it was the ESB Yoda, and it was a practical effect rather than CGI. His interactions with Luke were priceless.
- Finn's character development. I know I'm probably alone on this, but to go from someone who wanted to run to someone who's willing to sacrifice his own life to save his friends, is quite a development. Sure it wasn't handled brilliantly, but it was there.
- Luke's interpretation of The Force, I really liked how Luke explained the Force to Rey, and how he recognises that the Jedi made colossal mistakes, (which I agree with). I particularly loved the bit where Rey is sat on the rock and Luke says "reach out" and she stretches out her hand...that was a properly funny scene.

Conclusions...

My feelings are that Disney are trying to move the franchise on, and I totally get that, but they're doing it in an unmeasured way. I understand that they want to pass the torch on to the next generation, I totally get that, but I think there's a much better way they could have done it. They need to recognise that you need to keep the original fans on board as well as bringing new fans into it, and my personal feeling is that their attitude is, "let's throw everything out..." and in doing so they've alienated a lot of the fans.

I'd have enjoyed a phased hand over, rather than the abrupt one we seem to be getting which is quite upsetting. I'm honestly not sure I'll go and see episode 9, as with our princess (RIP Carrie) probably not going to be in it, I'm not sure how they're going to move the story onwards.

 

Well no.
The film made fine sense to me - at least as fine of sense as SW ever makes.
I just figure that if there's a series that you just go in to watch some cinematic stain glass portraits of morally epic moments and chow down some popcorn, it's SW.

There's nonsense going on every couple of minutes in every film; I mean, I can tear ANH hope up on just about every page of the script (and have as a study method).

But I get that's not how everyone takes SW; I just wish everyone did because it's friggen brilliant if you take it for what it is and not something else.
There's some brilliant craftsmanship going on in this film; I wrote quite a bit about it in a few places, maybe these perspectives will add some appreciation for the film back for you...maybe not? Anyway; read here, here, and here; or my review in this thread here (which is a quick rundown summary of the other three "here's").

Sorry you don't like the film,
Hopefully one day it'll just be how ESB or AOTC are to me. Sort of just a mood of "meh", but not a bad show.

Anyway,
Cheers,
Jayson

 

I was being sarcastic!

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 31, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 31, 2017 ---

But I did like it liked Spaceballs, the last Jedi remind me of Spaceball but its sequel

 

Obi-Wan also had the entire Republic government against him, so he had no choice but to hide. Luke could have helped the Resistance/New Republic instead of hiding on his island while The First Order built itself up.

 

Oh dear.

Moving on...

I'm a huge film fan and a huge Star Wars fans. When I go see a Marvel film I go to enjoy the ride. These type of films aren't Hamlet.

I liked The Last Jedi. I've seen it twice so far and hopefully will see it a 3rd time. Time will say how I feel about it compared to the rest of the films. I loved TFA. Mostly just because it was a great introduction to the new characters. However, I do feel most of my issues with this trilogy were decided in TFA. There's a thread for that so I won't get into that here.

Generally:

Pros:

- Outstanding surprises
- Original story
- Beautiful film
- Rey being a nobody

Cons:

- The whole Rose/Finn kind of goes off the rails for a bit after they escape from jail. Once they're reunited with DJ it's fine, but that whole chase sequence on CB was meh.

 

I can't wait to watch this again. With so much going on I didn't really pay close attention to that, but I really want to because it's the Pod Race and Speeder Bike parallel scene and I'm looking forward to compare/contrast time with a good cup of black coffee!

Cheers,
Jayson