Let's talk about the Elephant in the room here....

Simply put: the time and place Star Wars is set is “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....”. Any Star Wars project that could easily take place anytime and anywhere probably won’t “feel” like Star Wars to me. It won’t be a mythological construct pulled from the pages of an ancient, unseen journal, retold by some timeless unknowable narrator.

I’d still love to see what Taika Waititi or Patty Jenkins would do with an unincorporated “space” movie though. That they’d also happen to have the words ‘star’ and ‘wars’ in their titles would just be a bonus for me. Not the selling point.

 

Hot take. I would rather see a Star Wars story with no Jedi, no Force, no lightsabers... that relied on tightly written characters and events, over a comic book that jumps on any and every little quirky thing and makes a ridiculous backstory and assumed lore about it or grossly overdone "fan service/throwback reference, blah, blah".

This is an interesting POV, because if anything, I'd say I'm the exact opposite. I'll watch just about anything based solely on it being Star Wars. Maybe it's the child-like wonder that I refuse to let go of, but I think I am very biased and defensive of anything SW. That doesn't mean I can't see faults or things that I don't like, but I'm glad to have everything that Lucasfilm has gifted us. I love the Star Wars Universe, warts and all.

To answer my own questions, I look forward to any and all future SW, and I especially hope that we get more of those "out of the box" feeling shows. I also want more of the Space Wizard crazy alien laser sword Pew Pew Pew laden Star Wars stuff too. I think Skeleton Crew is gonna be Full-Tilt Star Wars. The premise is setting up a romp across the Galaxy which opens it up to show so many locations, cultures, etc... It could easily be a "Greatest Hits" type thing, and that could be very good. The Acolyte, on the other hand, is looking like it is going to be every bit as unfamiliar and even more disconnected than Andor. It's almost definitely going to have a very different feel and style of storytelling simply based on who is making it. I feel like people are thinking that because it's Jedi and Sith, it's gonna be familiar, but it's probably not. Chances are that five years from now, the popular opinion of "What is Star Wars?" will have changed.

 

Heck, I’d rather have any well told story over a poorly told one

Any premise can be good. Any premise can be bad. A Star Wars story, with no Star Wars substance to speak of, stands equal chance of being the best or the worst as anything else. Give it a chance and find out.

Does it have that storybook ‘feel’ that George wanted though? That’s the question and whether it matters to you or not. It matters to me. But I wouldn’t let that get in my way of enjoying something worth enjoying

I love Star Wars too. But I’m not at all precious about it. Sometimes it’s good. Sometimes it’s not so good. Like everything else. I always prefer Star Wars stories to have a fable quality to them. That’s the allure for me. But I’m more than happy to set that aside for a good story.

It’s not so much about Jedi and Sith for me though, but the prospect of an ancient and epic legend being miraculously relayed to us through the ages. It’s like what Lucas told American Film back in April of 1977.

"Rather than do some angry, socially relevant film, I realized there was another relevance that is even more important—dreams and fantasies, getting children to believe there is more to life than garbage and killing and all that real stuff like stealing hubcaps—that you could still sit and dream about exotic lands and strange creatures. Once I got into Star Wars, it struck me that we had lost all that—a whole generation was growing up without fairy tales. You just don't get them anymore, and that's the best stuff in the world—adventures in far-off lands.”

As a student of anthropology, he’d wanted to reconnect the culture with the power of myth. To inspire and provoke dreamers to dream again. And, when you think about it, that’s kind of our hero’s journey in the OT. The ‘return of the Jedi’ is essentially the return of a myth to a galaxy that had forgotten it. To restore a symbol of hope that everyone had thought was lost - an enduring legend.

A Star Wars story that isn’t interested at all in doing that can still be amazing. No doubt. But I’ll certainly feel there’s something lacking there. Like a taco without its shell

 

This feels more Star Wars to me (per my prior definition) than the dominant amount of what's been coming out as Star Wars.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

For me Star Wars is a story about "becoming family". Andor finds new friends and a family within the Rebellion. So this show is a Star Wars story after all.

But in the end I don't really care if a SW show or movie checks any check boxes. I just want a good and exciting story with great characters.

This is why I prefer 'Andor' much more over shows like 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' or 'The Book of Boba Fett', even though these shows might "feel more like Star Wars".
The story about Andor is just much more engaging.

 

THIS!!! ^^^^^

One of the reasons I fell in love with The Mandalorian is that IT FELT like the original Star Wars films I loved. But it goes back to DarthSnow's point about 'how it feels' depends on each fan's perspective. Looking back, the original Star Wars film felt so recognizabable yet strangely original....so sci-fi-ish yet dirty, dusty and 'lived in'...with heros and villains so different and yet so familiar. But it never occurred to me why that was the case until I heard an interview with Jon Favreau when he talked about creating a series based on the things that influenced George Lucas that I 'GOT' why SW worked for me.

As a kid, I used to love watching TV westerns like Gunsmoke from my grandpa's lap. With the OTs -- and especially with the Mando series -- I can see now how those old westerns influenced my love for Star Wars. Since George had many influences when he created SW, I can also see how different ones had similar effects on other fans.

Bottom line, its all about how SW works for you.

 

Here's the thing, though about the grittiness- that box has been opened. You are right, we have been indoctrinated to seeing a glossier, "friendly" portrayal of even horrific things, like Order 66. Even Rogue One has a heroic epic feel to a pretty dark and dire series of events. The Mandalorian took a few baby steps toward a more adult theme, but it still has a fair amount of candy coating. Andor has none of that. One of the most desired obsessions I see on here is for stories of the old Sith- Bane and Plagieus, etc... Well, I would think, from what I know, that those would easily lend themselves to a dark and gritty feel. I think the Acolyte will be similar, very dark and adult. I think probably there is a sweet spot as far as percentage of content that will be that kind of Andor-ish feel. I'd say if 20% of shows lean toward the heavy and dark, than there is 4X as much "true blue Star Wars" and that would keep catering to a wider audience. Just like with animation. Let's face it, The Bad Batch is not exactly a typical childish animated series, but there are some people who just are not gonna get into a "cartoon". The model we're starting to see with the animated shorts is really a great thing and helps put more stuff out there without upsetting the balance. Especially with an IP where the Cinematic side at least seems tumultuous and stunted, it is such a good thing to have an outlet like Disney+ to keep the fans happy and still hungry for more.

 

I think the real elephant is that the fandom has a broad spectrum of proprietary notions of what something needs to be, and not be, in order to be Star Wars. And those fans place varying degrees of value in those notions in order to validate the worthiness of their Star Wars experience.

Andor is a quality show set in the same universe as all other SW shows. It is authentically StarWars while having its own identity (or genre niche if you like) and verisimilitude.

The conclusion is that Star Wars is a universe inspired to tell a fairy tale but which can now accommodate and exploit other genres and sub genres while maintaining “canonical” continuity and coherence.

I sense that some of the resistance to the perceived diversity or “off model” nature of Andor might have something to do with fandom’s exposure to franchise tie in material of the past which invariably relied on certain gags familiar to the reader from the films. Like in the Aliens Earth War Comics which repeatedly called back to things like the motion sensors, battling queen aliens with power lifters, min safe distance count downs, etc etc, to ensure a sense of Aliens-ness. Everything is just a variation of things that worked before if not a simple replay.

I think it’s a mistake to restrict the franchise in that way. But I also sympathise with fans who are perhaps reacting to the small portion of fans advocating that this is what Star Wars now needs to be.

 

Well said, Martoto!

I may be wrong, but I believe the Andor series may be the first time that an established franchise told an 'in-world' story from a different film/TV genre.

The closest I can think of is when the James Bond movie franchise went from hard action/drama (Sean Connery) to comedic action/drama (Roger Moore) and then back again. (Daniel Craig)

 

I think this diversity has been coming since Rogue One delved into the WWII mission movie genre. And carried on through Mandalorian , TBOBF and OWK. Which are more like comic book stories influenced by westerns and samurai movies but less of a fairy tale than the saga.

 

Speaking only for myself. That's not my issue, nor do I mind Andor doing Andor.
I just have no interest in it. Just as back in the day, I had no interest in the EU, nor do I have interest in dressing up in Star Wars outfits and going to cons. Interest: none. Judgement: they're perfectly fine for folks.

There's one big missing piece in me that makes me very unlikely to be fit to be interested in the franchise material. I don't truly care about the Star Wars universe. Not in a consuming way.

I just like the way the movies tell a story.
Andor, not really. Not the kind of show I'd watch.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

What do you mean by "in-world story"? And the comedic tone of the Bond franchise began with Connery, not Moore. Even Moore had his more serious Bond movies.

Star Wars wasn't all about telling a "fairy tale". Just because some of the major characters had abilities, doesn't mean those movies were "fairy tales". And other genres and sub genres have been featured in Star Wars movies and TV before "Andor".

Then why become involved in watching movies and shows from the Star Wars franchise?

 

It really was. Especially after ESB.

As I pointed out, Rogue One, Mandalorian, TBOBF and OWK are different from the saga movies and fill different sub genres.

 

I LOVE this. I guess I never really thought about that, but that really is one of the running themes throughout. Luke and Ben then Han, Chewie, Leia, the droids... At the start, they're strangers but by the end of the Battle of Endor, they are Family. In the PT, we have Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Anakin, Padme, same thing. ST has Rey, Finn, Poe, so on and so on. The Mandalorian has the same formula. Even Book of Boba Fett and Obi-Wan Kenobi have that same dynamic. The Clone Wars? Anakin, Asokha, Obi-Wan, Rex... Rebels? Check. Resistance? Check. Wow. I'm so glad I read back on this thread and that stood out more than before!

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2023 ---

Book of Boba Fett is a perfect example to hold up in the "Feels like Star Wars" argument. BoBF is double-strength Star Wars dipped in Star Wars batter lightly fried in Star Wars and served in a robust Star Wars sauce. I really like the show. It is fun, easy and has just enough connective tissue to feel important to the Big Story. But let's be honest- it is not as well done as most of us wanted. It's sloppy, wandering, and kinda goes nowhere. It has everything that I imagine people are missing in Andor, but the two shows aren't really even in the same conversation for what is a "Great" TV show or even a "Great" story.

 

I can definitely understand the criticisms of Andor "not feeling like Star Wars." That's not to say I agree with the criticisms; I personally loved Andor and consider it one of the best Star Wars stories we've ever had. But still, I get where some folks are coming from. Andor does have a distinctly different flavour to it than what we've seen before. The closest link to Andor is Rogue One, but even there, Andor still feels different from Rogue One as well.

More generally, I do think a series or franchise should have the freedom to experiment and try out different genres and styles if it wants to, that it shouldn't feel constrained to have to do the same general things over and over. Especially with such a long-running franchise; trying out different things after a while is a good way to keep it fresh and prevent staleness. But there also has to be a limit on that as well. If you change something too much, then it can become an "in name only" issue, and calls into question of whether it still deserves to be part of the same franchise, if it shouldn't have been made a separate intellectual property altogether.

Andor never came close to crossing that line, however, at least not for me. As pointed out in the very first post, there are still quite a few familiar elements. Maybe not as many familiar elements, but imo it led to a comfortable balance of Andor trying out something different while still fitting itself snugly into the larger Star Wars canon.

 

I’m glad someone else bumped this thread so I could come here in slightly off-topic and say this might be my favorite post ever.