SPECULATION Luke left because he didn't want to murder Ben

he doesnt have to kill him. but you trying to rationalize his murders isnt going to change the fact that Luke Skywalker wouldnt allow for the continued deaths of innocents. he would be the "good hero" and fight to save his friends. because of how engrained that is in his character, i highly doubt the reason Luke left is because he just wouldnt dare kill his nephew, the murderer. the writers i assume have a better plan than that. although character motivation was not one of TFA's strong suites.

 

He just killed his father!!!! He's a freaking psychopath!!!! Can we please stop using the dark side as a reason for people not being accountable to their actions? Who said he killed millions and billions? He's a cold blooded evil killer. Period.

Luke would be the WORST "guardian of peace and justice" in the history of the Jedi Order if he let Kylo get away with "murder".

You keep saying Luke isn't Judge, Jury and Executioner. Who is? What exactly would a court decide for Kylos atrocities? The Jedi killed Sith and didn't go to the dark side because of it. Leia was prepared to kill her own son if it meant protecting the Galaxy from evil spreading. Luke would too.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 17, 2016 ---

Exactly. Luke wouldn't leave because he was too weak to kill his nephew. He also wouldn't leave because he was too angry and couldn't control it. Luke tried to help Ben and it didn't work. Ben was too far gone. Now Ben killed his father. It's the duty of Luke, Leia, Rey and company to find them and eradicate the evil.

 

Good theory. Maybe Luke felt that killing ANOTHER family member would have turned him to the dark side... and maybe he regretted half-killing Vader instead of handling it in a more peaceful way.

Luke giving in to the urge to strike at The Emperor would have been frowned upon by Yoda for example... also Luke knew he was the only good Jedi left, and had to protect himself for the good of the galaxy. He put the galaxy before more personal matters, but it ended up spiralling out of control.

 

You think Luke regrets getting his father to return to the light? Luke didn't even half kill him, the Emporers Lightning killed Vader.

 

Vader's breathing sounded all messed up to me, he sounded incredibly weak when Luke took off his hand and did other damage.. he may have damaged his life support.

 

"Only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally will conquer Vader and his Emporer" -Yoda

"Only a fully trained Jedi Knight (Luke Skywalker), with the Force as his ally will conquer Kylo Ren and his Supreme Leader"

Watch the movies folks, it's all there.

 

I'm not rationalising Ben's actions at all. Ben has killed people, he's done some bad stuff, but he is no worse than Vader.
While you are correct that Luke can't sit by and allow the deaths of innocent people, he can only stop them when he is capable of doing so.
Do you think Yoda and Obi-Wan just wanted to sit around and watch the galaxy burn? Absolutely not. I wish I could cure cancer and bring about world peace, but that doesn't mean I can. Luke might not be able to kill Kylo Ren (because doing so would be way out of character), but even if he wanted to, it doesn't mean he can.

I'm not saying Luke went to Ahch-to because he was afraid of turning to the dark side or because he couldn't bring himself to kill Ben. The point I'm trying to make is that Luke failed to stop Ben because he was powerless to do so. Luke is not a god, or superman, or even the most powerful Jedi to have ever lived. Remember, as the last Jedi Knight in existence, Luke carries a massive burden upon his shoulders. He needs to rebuild the Jedi, or the entire galaxy will be forever lost to the Dark Side. He cannot afford to engage in a wild-goose chase just to find a kid who he had failed.

Is the idea that Luke is powerless to do something so far beyond the realm of possibility?
The entire premise of the new trilogy is built on the fact that Luke was powerless to stop Snoke and the Dark Side from returning.
So would you rather a Luke who is powerless because he is gripped by grief, or would you rather a Luke who is powerless because of obligation to family, principles, and the galaxy he seeks to protect?

Yes, Ben just killed his father, however, you cannot cite Ben's actions in the movie as a reason for why Luke should have chased him around the galaxy to bring him to justice, because they hadn't even happened yet. Star Wars is not Minority Report. The Jedi don't hang around, seeing visions of crimes people are going to commit, so they can prevent them.

You, Chowdahead, and plenty of other people.

"Rey: "He just killed Han Solo and helped blow up the entire Republic""
Entire Republic = billions of people.
Ben had nothing to do with that. He didn't help the First Order to do that either.

No he's not.
A psycopath doesn't question his actions. A psychopath doesn't feel guilt or remorse. Ben Solo is the most conflicted and torn character in Star Wars.
Ben killed his father because Snoke told him to when he said "Even you, Master of the Knights of Ren, have never faced such a test."
Snoke made Ben believe that by eliminating his father, he would become stronger. What Ben experienced was quite the opposite.
I believe that this action will haunt Ben until the end of his life.

He wasn't then, and I'm not convinced that he is now.

He would be even worse if he failed the galaxy completely while trying to stop some kid who went off the rails.

The courts and politicians. The Jedi are supposed to be separate from all that. Even Anakin realised this. In fact, that's part of the reason Anakin turned to the Darkside and what nearly destroyed the Jedi in the first place. The Jedi became a fallen and corrupt order. It was not Yoda or Obi-Wan, but Luke who found the higher path. It would be an utter disaster for Luke to now abandon that and return to what they had become.

Do you honestly believe that Leia could look her son in the eye and pull the trigger? I certainly don't.

I guess we don't need a new trilogy with Luke around, because Luke's just going to save the day anyway.

 

Luke, by his own choice is NOT a "guardian" Jedi Knight(blue saber). He's a "strong force user" like Yoda. That's why Skywalker made the green saber .

TFM

 

Luke tried to help Ben, but he failed. That is a fact stated in the film. Han tried to help Ben. He failed. Fact. Who is going to redeem Ben and how many chances does Ben get to turn back to the light? You see, Luke felt the conflict in Vader and thought Vader would come with him and not be turned over to the Emperor. He was wrong. Vader turned him over to the Emperor. It was in the final moments of Luke's life that Vader just couldn't see his son suffer and die. Vader's redemption is totally different. Vader had one chance and took it. Ben has had multiple chances and each time has chose to ignore the call to the light.

In Episode 8, there will be no redemption arc for Kylo. Only tragedy. They will not ask the audience to forgive him for killing his father.

Luke should have chased him down because he was complicit in the killing of innocent Jedi. He should have chased him down so he did't grow more powerful and more dangerous and killed more innocent people. News flash, Dark Side users don't stop killing, eventually they help build super weapons that kill innocent people. (Cough, Death Star. Cough Starkiller)

How can you say Kylo had nothing to do with Starkiller? He's the #2 man of an evil regime hell bent on the destruction of the Republic. He watched as multiple planets were destroyed.

If being apart of a group that kills innocent people is just "going off the rails" then we have a much different definition of evil.

Yes. 100% yes. She knew Kylo had Rey and that Rey was on Starkiller and she launched an attack to destroy the base and the planet. She told Han to bring him home because she did't want him to die, but she would have allowed it if Kylo didn't come to his senses.

Mace Windu was correct in his attempt to kill Palpatine. Palatine was ARMED and DANGEROUS and should have been killed during that fight. In your world, does law enforcement only use stun guns? If the bad guys try to kill you, you can defend yourself to the point of lethal force and NOT turn to the dark side. The Jedi were blind and arrogant, not corrupt.

My last point and then we can just agree to disagree. Luke Skywalker vanished after his student betrayed his Jedi and destroyed it all. We don't know all the details, but the whole point of this movie was Leia wanted to find him and bring him back. She wanted to tell him "it's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault." She needed her brother to help her defeat the First Order. She needed her brother to help defeat Snoke and her son.

 

And why did they fail?
Because of Snoke. Ben has become so desperate to please Snoke, that he is even willing to kill his own father to prove his loyalty.

Redemption is not a one time offer.

Yet George Lucas asked audiences to forgive Vader after assaulting his pregnant wife, ultimately resulting in her death.
So, on one hand you've got some conflicted young man, being told to kill his estranged father so that he can become stronger, while on the other you've got a conflicted young man who assaults a pregnant woman because he doesn't believe her.
I can sympathize with Ben, far more than I can with Anakin.

Except he didn't. What he should have done is entirely moot at this point. The simple fact is that he didn't.

So why didn't he? What stopped Luke from trying to bring him back?

I simply can not believe that Luke simple gave up on everything because he was feeling responsible for everything that had gone wrong.

Because he didn't.
He didn't suggest destroying the Hosnian system. When Hux came and reported that they had discovered the Resistance base, Kylo was still concerned with finding Skywalker.
When the Resistance showed up to destroy it, Kylo was more concerned with finding Rey again.
Kylo did not care about Starkiller in the slightest.

He's not #2, at least not within the First Order. Hux holds just as much influence within the First Order as Kylo Ren, possible more, yet Hux is only a General.

Half of the galaxy watched. Your point is?

Except I don't think Ben was part of a group when he betrayed Luke...
Do the First Order really go around killing innocent people for the fun of it? How active have they really been in the galaxy since Luke's disappearance?
And what about the Knights of Ren? Do they have any other goal besides destroying the Jedi?

I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong about that.
When you have a choice to save either your son or millions of innocent people, it can be difficult to make the right choice... but Leia is the kind of person who will make the right choice. She would destroy Starkiller base, to save the people in the Ileenium system, but that doesn't mean that she would ever stand before him and assassinate him. Leia still believed there was "light in him." If it had been Leia on that bridge at Starkiller base, she would have attempted to bring him home just the same. It may have turned out differently too, because although Ben considered his father "weak and foolish," we don't actually know how he feels about his mother.
The animosity towards Han makes sense. Han is not strong with the Force by any means... but Leia is different. I'm not sure Snoke could have talked Ben into killing her.

No he wasn't. Mace should have listened to Anakin, and shown the better way. The Jedi are supposed to be better than the Sith, but what Mace Windu was attempting to do showed Anakin that they were no different. Just as Palpatine had told him.

Except that is kind of the point of the biblical hero; they will sacrifice themselves before raising a weapon to kill another.

Do you know how Harry Potter defeated Voldemort? He sacrificed himself. Lucky for him, he had the resurrection stone so he could still come back... In the end, Voldemort destroyed himself. That's how these sorts of characters are supposed to work.

Luke is a messianic hero, not some avenging angel.

 

The key is how the attack is responded too. In Rebel's newest season 2 trailer has Ezra talking to Yoda exactly over this point of how he wants to protect his friends. Yoda cautions him to not use hatred to complete himself. That is a path to the darkside.

So Luke would be able to be seduced to the darkside if he did indeed attack using rage and revenge as motive.

 

As I get older, I realize Yoda, the character detested the Skywalkers & really did not trust or like them.
Yoda KNEW more so than other Jedi like Obi-Wan, Qui-Jon Gin & Mace Windu(maybe) that training Skywalkers to be Jedi would be a huge mistake.
Why would Yoda feel this strongly? Hmmmm?....
Maybe because he's fully aware of Darth Plaguis(or maybe Snoke if he's on the same track) & the evil-darkness the Skywalkers represent.

 

Most of your answers are based on your own speculation not anything presented in the films.

You don't know why he failed. All we know is he failed to reach Ben. We've been told he "vanished" and "walked away from it all".

How is redemption offered next? Is he going to turn on Snoke to save his mother? The only way the audience will accept an act of redemption is if he sacrifices himself, the same way Vader did. If that's the path the writers take, then call me disappointed.

No Lucas didn't. ROTJ was released 20 years before the prequels. For over 20 years we were asked to forgive Vader for his evil. We never had to deal with the fact that he killed Younglings, etc. Honestly, the prequels reduced my sympathy for Vader. Anakin was a stupid, power hungry, whiny little self absorbed brat who wanted nothing but power and his women. Prior to the prequels, we forgave Vader because he saved LUKE SKYWALKER and KILLED THE EMPORER! He showed a fathers love which resonated. Every Star Wars fan I know feels like the prequels reduced their opinion of Darth Vader.

Again, you are making assumptions based on technicalities. FACT: Kylo Ren is aligned with the First Order. He is complicit in all crimes committed by that order. PERIOD. Kylo Ren has HELPED Snoke and the First Order RISE TO POWER. He's DIRECTLY involved with all First Order activities. Saying Kylo isn't responsible means you are a Kylo Apologist and are splitting hairs.

Did you watch the movie?????????? Maz Kanata talks about how "the First Order's shadow is spreading throughout the galaxy" "we must face them, fight them, all of us". Finn talks about "they will slaughter us!"
Rey asks "what fight?" Maz says "The only fight, against the dark side".
By the way, Kylo commanded Stormtroopers that killed innocent villagers for possessing a map. He could have taken Poe and left. He didn't. He could have questioned Lor San Tekka and let him live. Instead he struck him down in cold blood. I've gotta say, I'm shocked at how much of an apologist for EVIL you are.
Bottom line: Ben Solo was (with a high degree of probability) aligned with Snoke when Luke's Jedi were destroyed.

When were we presented with a situation of Leia having a gun to her sons head? You are being over dramatic to prove a weak point. Leia was going to destroy the planet she knew her son was on. That is a fact presented in the movie. She wanted Han to bring him home, she's still his mother. But she would never put her personal feelings ahead of what is right. She's shown this in the past.

Wow. How would you have "arrested" the man in control of the senate and the courts and just tried to kill you with lightning coming from his fingertips? You KILL Hitler when you have the chance. You KILL Osama Bin Laden when you have the chance. You KILL Darth Sidious when you have the chance. This is war man! WAR! Your survival is at stake. Stop this nonsense of "a better way". What is the better way? You have yet to answer that!

Your only path to winning a war against evil is self sacrifice? Who are you to say how these characters are supposed to work? You've added so much of your own speculation and anti-war belief that Star WARS is more like "Star - You can't kill the bad guy so the good guys have to get them to kill themselves or you have to sacrifice yourself".

Finally, you failed to address my point. Which is actually what the movie was about. Please watch it again. Let me refresh your memory by quoting the opening crawl:
Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.

With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.

Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke’s whereabouts….

Leia wanted to find Luke to help her defeat the First Order. Snoke was the mastermind. Kylo Ren the enforcer. She needed LUKE to help DEFEAT her SON and the evil organization he was aligned with. Luke failed his sister by not being there. However there is probably more to it than we know. Until we get this entire trilogy completed, we can only base our opinions on the facts presented in the previous films.

 

I have to admit, I'm puzzled why people think Kylo Ren isn't redeemable but Vader was. Was there backlash back with ROTJ came out about Bader's change of heart? Honestly, I don't see how Ren is so much worse in lots of people's opinions...

For me, I find Hux a heck of a lot more terrifying. He was practically ecstatic watching the planets burn.

 

There's a huge difference in my opinion. Vader's redemption was a direct result in saving Luke Skywalker. Vader didn't kill his own family. Kylo murdered his father. Big difference. Vader could have killed Luke in ESB, but he couldn't. He convinced the Emperor that he could turn him so he wouldn't have to kill him. That's the conflict Luke spoke about.

If Kylo just hurt Han Solo but let him live and ran away saying "it's too late for me father", then I would have no issue seeing him come around. The minute he killed Han, I believe the writers are telling us that Kylo's path will be very different. They did that to make the audience HATE him. To show he was truly a "monster".

Let me ask this question. Had Vader killed Leia in cold blood, would Luke still have tried to save him?

 

Vader killed a bunch of children and nearly strangled his wife to death. I'm not sure why Han Solo is considered more valuable than multiple children. But Vader didn't want to destroy his legacy, his son, so he gets a free pass? As long as Vader didn't kill anyone Luke has an attachment to, Luke finds his father redeemable?

 

This is no proof Luke knew anything about Anakin killing younglings or strangling his mother. I hate that Lucas wrote such a horrible backstory for Darth Vader. But remember, most of us saw ROTJ before the horrific ROTS. Vader's redemption wouldn't have worked as well had he killed a character the audience had an emotional connection to like Han Solo or Princess Leia. And ROTS diminished Vader's redemption in my opinion. It's harder to understand Anakin's sudden caring for his son when all he cared about in the prequels was himself.

And you dodged my question. Would Luke have tried to redeem his father if he killed Leia in cold blood?

 

My assumption watching the OT when it first came out was that Vader committed all sorts of atrocities. My feeling on redemption in general is that it's never too late to do the right thing no matter how far down a dark path you've gone.

I didn't really dodge your question, although I wasn't explicit. I think he would. Just like I think he will still try to redeem Kylo if he senses light still in him. As a Jedi, it shouldn't matter to Luke if the person killed someone he knew personally or strangers.

 

Redemption does not require another individual to redeem you. (My personal belief is anyone can be redeemed if they seek forgiveness). A common misconception is that Luke redeemed his father. Luke may have planted the seed, but Vader redeemed himself through his compassionate act to save his son. Remember, Luke thought he could talk his father into coming back with him. He thought Vader wouldn't turn him over to Emporer. Luke was wrong. It wasn't until Vader saw Luke about to die that Anakin Skywalker returned.

As for the Jedi, they were not in the redemption business. Yoda, Obi-Wan, Mace. They saw things as black and white when it came to the dark side. "Once you start down the dark path, FOREVER will it dominate your destiny"
Yoda didn't believe in redemption. Neither did Obi-Wan. "He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil".

Luke was the first to believe in his father's ability to return to the light. It doesn't mean he believes all dark side users can return

 

True. I also think Luke's belief in Vader helped him along with the decision.

For the record, I think Obi Wan & Yoda were wrong about being stuck forever on the dark path. Luke did too. And while he may have changed his stance on it, I kind of doubt it. Black and white thinking tends to lead to trouble, imho.