SPECULATION Luke, Yoda and the Gray Jedi of the Old Republic!

I'm surprised you didn't see the visual connotations of Luke's entrance into Jabba's Palace were that he was acting in a Vader-esque way. That was the threat ever since he discovered Vader was his father. Luke is in all black. He enters the palace hood up, creating a silhouette that looks like Vader. He then uses the one Force power associated with Vader to put down the guards. We're not meant to think Luke was acting like a perfect Jedi here. We should be worried about the path he is on.

In the first film Luke takes on the responsibility of his father; he is given his father's lightsaber. In the second film the father destroys that. In the first movie Luke wants to go off on an adventure, but he doesn't really have a purpose. He doesn't have a real cause that he is emotionally connected to. In the second film he gets this cause; he gets emotionally involved and philosophically attached to a particular idea. The new lightsaber that Luke built himself in Jedi symbolises that he has detached himself completely from his father and now is on his own. The central issue is that Luke confronts his demons, and his demons basically revolve around whether he will follow in his father's footsteps, whether he will succumb to the dark side. The ultimate issue here is, will he make the same mistake that his father made? The major emotional conflict is that the audience has to feel that he is not completely ready yet to face Vader and the Emperor.
- The Annotated Screenplays (Laurent Bouzerou), 1997

I don't particularly expect him to have a saber. I wouldn't be surprised if he is unwilling to join the fight at first. That is the opening proposition that I believe is being set up. But if he does fight - and if he remains on the good side, then he won't be choking people.

Well, I just don't get it. If he trains Rey, which we see him doing, then whether he fights or not is irrelevant - he is involved. Maz set out what the options were to Finn - run away from or fight the dark side. You can't just sit on the fence.

 

About Luke in RotJ, yes one of the themes was the question of "will Luke become the next Vader or will he triumph over the Dark Side?".
That's why he's dressed in black, that's why when entering Jabba's palace, he looks like a silhouette of Vader.
It is only after fighting Vader again, we see Luke was good all along, which visually is shown by the white slab that came loose on his outfit, meaning there was good in Luke all along.


What we have to keep in mind is, that all things Force related we see in the OT really got fleshed out in material that came out afterwards.
Remember the old Jedi Knight games, with the Force points system? That was one of, I think, the first clear representations of what Force action is good
or bad.

Anyway. I don't see Luke choking someone in TLJ, though it wouldn't surprise me if he does some (at first) questionable things.
The current rumour is that Rey at first isn't all that impressed with Luke. Her expectations don't quite match up the moment she finally meets him.
So @master_shaitan, I agree that the whole "what's Luke about, is he good, is he evil" question will be brought up at the start of TLJ, probably even being one of the lead motives of the first act.

Concerning Maz, I think she knows more than what is shown in TFA. Only her knowledge consists of (again, I think) mainly PT and OT knowledge.
Obi-Wan said in RotS: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes". But by saying that, he is dealing in absolutes himself. I think there is a reason TFA talks about light versus dark, in comparison to the PT/OT which talk about good vs. evil.
So Maz gave Finn two options, because at that time, she doesn't think about there being a third way.
Or, more simply, she just wants Finn to make a stand.
Or, she sees something in Finn, realizes his role to play and nudges him forward, knowing he will end up where he ends up during TFA.

But then again: I think there is a shift coming. Right now there is a struggle. Between good and evil. Light and Dark. This struggle has been going on forever, all the way back to the start of the Old Republic and even before that. And it will go on, unless there will be a new solution, if you will.

@techsteveo theorizes Luke becomes a Bendu type character. That's possible. Luke learns his place in the universe and in the Force, knows what must be done, so eventually trains Rey.
He isn't passively sitting on the sidelines, or at least he doesn't want to, but he realizes he can't be involved too much, in risk of tipping over the balance.

That's why I think my crazy idea might not be so crazy after all. If Episode IX will be the last Saga chapter, there has to be a conclusion, a solution to the endless conflict in the SW universe. A new Mortis trio might be that solution, wether they will be in hiding, like in the CW, or not. Rey represents the light (ray of light), Kylo - now Ben again - represents the dark, and Luke holds both at bay.

No more PT/OT good vs evil, two sides of the coin type of situation, but a new balance, a holy trinity if you will.

 

Speaking of over analysis, you have been on this board before, don't you?

Anyhoo, in 1983 I was -3 years old, so you having seen the movie that many times during it's actual run is awesome.

And you bring up some good points with the above pictures. Of course Luke is the hero. And he will be in TLJ and (hopefully) epIX too.
But I do like the idea of what I said. The symbolism. I believe it's actually part of The Hero's Journey.
Over the years I have heard many theories and allusions about this. So wether it's intentional or not, the symbolism is there.

Again, to be a SW fan in these times is great, but to experience the initial craze would have been awesome!

 

You love throwing out any Lucas quotes that go against your pov, don't you?!
And whether the "Luke is like Vader" connotations were lost on you or not, they were definitely there. Lucas is a visual story teller. He's in black. He has an ominous entrance. He chokes guards...

 

I'm not saying it was some elaborate ruse to trick us into thinking it was Vader. Just that the visual similarities weren't an accident. They're there to make a point.

 

Let me tell you, even not seeing this in the theaters but on VHS later (before Special Editions) i had that same emotion. My favorite toy was Luke in Jedi Robes (although mine was a little later than yours ) and when he entered Jabba's Palace i can vividly remember getting very excited. I never for a second entertained the idea that Luke was on a dangerous path. Maybe because i was young, but as they say "Truly wonderful the mind of a child is". Maybe it was because i was seeing it for what it was and not trying to over analyze it, but i thought the same way you did. He was showing how strong he became, Jedi's dressed in Black, and when you get older you retire to brown perhaps. I was aware that Vader's signature move was the force choke, but there was a difference to what i was seeing when Luke did it (maybe just in my mind).

I don't know, but my opinion was that I didn't see that they were showing Luke swaying or on a path to the dark side. But hey, just my opinion and thoughts.

 

I'm dreading saying this, but is there anyone else out there who really isn't on board with this whole 'Gray Jedi' malarkey. I think I'll be quite disappointed if this is the route that's taken. For me Star Wars has always been about the Light and the Dark sides. From the PT to the OT its always been Jedi vs Sith, even all this talk of Snoke not being a Sith makes me uneasy.

The one phrase I'm holding onto is Snokes from TFA "If Skywalker is found, the new Jedi will rise" - to me this indicates that Snoke knows there are more Jedi out there and I hope he's right!

Away with the Gray I say!

*awaits negative ratings*

 

Many of us are not happy about the idea of no more Jedi.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2017, Original Post Date: May 5, 2017 ---

I was watching the Rebels trailer today. It included a line I consider important to the discussion of Jedi, balance their place and so on.

"We are the balance Ezra. We were meant to be Jedi so that we could be here now . . ."

 

Pablo retweet:

 

'Victory? Victory you say...Master Obi-Wan, not victory. The shroud of the Dark Side has fallen. Begun the Clone War, has....'

--- Double Post Merged, May 9, 2017, Original Post Date: May 9, 2017 ---

The whole point of that retweet by Pablo is to show that the idea of grey Jedi is nonsense.

 

That specific line was about victory not always meaning harmony. The point is that this so-called grey Jedi code is vacuous and a mere justification to not follow the difficult way of the Jedi and not fully reject the Dark Side.

 

So why would the end of the Jedi ever work out? Surely, if it does happen, it would be momentary as only the Jedi can bring balance?