Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

That could very may be. It could also explain why Rey is seeing this. This is Supreme Leader Ren fighting his last fight. Maybe he's killing the KOR then. Oh boy, I really hope for the KOR to appear in IX. Snoke and Phasma are gone. We need more bad guys!

 

Possibly, but he'd have to go back to his helmet. I thought we were done with that thing. *sigh*

 

I don't think so. He had the helmet in th snowy forest vision, but not IRL at the end of the film.

We hadn't seen his face yet by the vision. JJ probably wanted to keep it mysterious story line wise, so he had Kylo in a helm.

 

No, he wouldn't have to go back to his helmet. This vision doesn't depict the future correctly. Ren never faces Rey with his mask in the forest.

EDIT: @Withred, you were faster than me.

 

I don't think he thought she was alive. If he did he wouldn't have told them to fire on the base. But why didn't Leia just walk out there? Why can't she face him I wonder? Does she feel she disappointed him too?

 

That's a good point. Good, I'm sick of that helmet.

 

I think it's him massacring rebels and facing Rey on a battlefield. Maybe even their first meeting in IX. And they have an awkward conversation about the whole force thing before letting rip.

 

She says to Han in TFA that she never should have sent him away, that's when she lost him... So I think she feels guilt to some degree too.

I think she didn't walk out there because she thought he was the one who fired on her bridge in the space battle. That's probably why she's lost faith in the goodness in him.

 

Yeah i do agree. Just in that moment, Han and Leia seemed as though they lost all hope. I'm sure if Ben came out and asked that all of them would help, especially Rey.

Can we talk about that line though?
"No one ever really dies"
That killed me. Especially seeing interviews after her passing where Hamil repeatedly says (still to this day) that it feels like shes still with him. It's not that Carrie 'was', but she still is very much present and in present tense for him. Heart breaking

 

Him thinking Leia is dead throughout TLJ is a HUGE influence on his arc. It's why he really ratchets up the whole "killing the past" thing and latches on to Rey in their force bond. Snoke played on his vulnerability to draw Rey out. He even cries over her "death". I'm writing a character series on Kylo and will link it here when I'm done. Part 1 is about Rey and Leia and this belief.

It's a communication breakdown. Leia thinks he's fully gone, unaware that he thinks she's dead. She has no reason to go out and see him.

 

i've seen the movie twice and i cried both times during that scene for so many reasons.
for Ben, for Luke (i already knew it was over for him), and for Carrie.

 

Kylo, while he is a selfish [censored] and a bona fide dark side manipulator, does get put through the wringer in TLJ, both emotionally and physically. I think Rian said he wanted us (the audience) to feel sorry for him after he'd done one of the most hateful things in the series in TFA, kill his father, beloved SW character Han Solo.

BTW whenever I talk about, I would like to say that I think the bond between he and Rey can be viewed as romantic or not.

I both loathe and feel sorry for him. He's very complex. On one hand, he believes his mother is dead for most of TLJ greatly increasing his "hate the past" schtick, his hated uncle is teaching the person he wanted to teach in the ways of the force, and he has good ole Snokie Pokie breathing down his neck and further breaking his spirit in the throne room scenes. It's why I believe he latches on to the force bond and doesn't question it when it happens. Rey gives him a form of warped "hope"; as a person who sympathises with him and tries to reach out to him because they are both alone and rejected by their mentors. They get closer over this. Which is why he lashes out after Snoke reveals he was pedalling the bond, and after Rey rejects him. He wanted to have a dark side empire with her, except unlike the past (because of TLJ's main theme of killing it). I think in a more equal way than the good ole abusive Sith "rule of two", but a still unhealthy one, because he expected her to be fine with killing innocents and people she saw as friends, as well a ending a source of "hope" for the Galaxy and leave the vicious practices of the FO as the only ruling authority.

This is shown by his behaviour and status in the aftermath of Snoke's death and the fight with the praetorian guards. They've just fought together and he's seen that he and Rey work well as a duo, as well as both being force users who've seemingly rejected their mentors, so he thinks he has a good chance of convincing her to join him. But he knows that she treasures the resistance, and the people in it, so he's desperate and tactless in convincing her. He gaslights her and is harsh with her, yelling at her to "let go" of the past because he's frustrated and taking it out on her. Only his "please" at the end is really genuine, a brief view of his vulnerable side. She's the only person alive that he really gives a single damn about, but not enough to keep her alive if she says no to his offer. (You dark side [censored] Kylo.)

So she says no. And he snaps and reacts the only way how-with violent anger and mindless tactics. Because he is still, for all his experiences in TLJ, a "child wearing a mask."

My Part I analysis will be much longer.

 

What if he slaughtered the knights of Ren for some reason? I mean we did see his lightsaber through one of them.

 

i think they're dead too. and Ben even says in TLJ that he wants to destroy both the Jedi and Sith. if the KoR worshipped the Sith, then yes, he might have already dispatched them--and that's why Snoke teases him about being their "master".

we have so little to go on here still! : D

 

Yeah, that's just my personal theory and I think it makes the most sense. The planet the vision is on looks different than the planet the temple is on.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2017 ---

And having little to go on makes it that much more fun to guess!

 

yeah i don't think that scene was ever intended to be a flashback to the temple.
it still could be a flash forward though.
so we may yet see the KoR in ix now that Ben is Supreme Leader (he can recall them from wherever they've been off to).

 

Nope can't be a flash forward, he smashed his mask.

 

Rey's vision of Kylo Ren on Starkiller was wearing a mask too. when she did meet him, he didn't have it then either.

i think she sees him masked because he's a mystery. she's seeing his avatar in the Force. now she knows him.

but yeah, all just speculating. : D

 

I bet Snoke was manipulating all Luke’s students. Probably got them to do some wigi board shield and contact dead Sith, tricking the lot of them. He certainly had the power to put whatever thoughts he wanted into here kids heads.

I just feel bad for Ben. He never stood a chance. In a court of law I’d be arguing diminished responsibility from the get go!

 

until they show us otherwise, this kid has done nothing to deserve the abuse heaped on him.
i'm surprised he has any sanity at all at this point.

and even Luke said he was already corrupted before he struck one blow.
he needed guidance and protection and no one gave it to him, so Snoke took advantage.
it's no wonder he wants to see everything burn now.