Official Finn Episode VIII thread

The older generations aren't. Their history isn't what they claim, and since Japan has been heavily influenced by the west, that's not a surprise, but I'm talking about the youth.

 

So I caught up with the thread. Man, the pessimism is killing me guys, c'mon. Of course, I don't expect to change any opinions here, but here are my thoughts on much of the discussion up until now and I ordered it for my own reasons:

1) Possibility of a FS Finn and Boyega's allusiveness to these types of questions - First, Boyega could be avoiding these questions because he honestly doesn't know. As of relatively a month ago Episode 9 was going through script number 4 according to Screenrant. Therefore, Boyega nor the production group may be aware of their plans this far beyond what's already on the drawing board for characters prior to any finalized script. Second, as to whether they could do a Force Reveal in Episode 9 if they don't do it in 8? Sure, I can think of a few minor ways and/or reasons they could do a "late bloomer" reveal for Finn if they went that way. However, it's contingent on the possibility this is the route they intended to go all along outside of fan speculation. It would be nice to see him discover a glimmer of FS and then potentially discover an old Force art. (Mentioned before in discussion in regard to hopeful paths Finn could take by many here) Yet, we're at the mercy of the creators with fan filled hopeful thinking on our end and we're not at the helm of producing the final story.
2) How the Force will be manifested in further installments of SW - Based on previous statements by J.J. Abrams in regard to the Force being accessible to more than a select, special group of people. He conveyed the thought that the new trilogy would take a new look at ways to apply the Force to characters outside the Skywalker-Solo dynasty and their close companions: Obi-Wans, Yodas, or frenemies and enemies, etc. As much as I like the Force user fights (mostly light saber battles), I would like to see more of an expansion of the Force brought to light. There are many ways in which the Force could be utilized outside of the traditional, mainly movie manifestation of it. See Chirrut Imwe in Rogue One, for example. He uses a form of Force Martial arts and in the old EU this was a way in which FS used the Force ranging from Echani, Teräs Käsi (of which FS and non-FS could use) and various others.
3) The Jedi/Sith/Dark Jedi/Grey Jedi/People of the Force problem in Star Wars (the movies mostly) and Finn as Non-FS Character - As I've voiced before, I consider this primarily a movie problem. When one breaks away from seeing the movies as the only source of material which drives Star Wars outside of comics, cartoons, video games, etc. then one begins to embrace the idea that the Force Users are not the end all be all of meaningful characters. Granted, the movie canon comes before EU canon, but that's beside the point here. Finn not being FS, if done right, can still have him stand with the top tier Force Users, but with limitations. Again, I'm fully aware this takes some creativity on the part of the creators, etc. Yet, knowing in the Expanded Universe, and as a reminder, where non-Force Using Mandalorians, for instance, fought a war against Force Using Jedi and the Old Republic comes with the realization that there are plenty of examples of the Non-FS engaging in combat with FS and killing each other respectively. I personally think it does a disservice to Finn to demand he be a particular type of character such as an Anakin, Yoda, Vader, etc. and disavowing the character if he becomes a Jace Malcom, Lando Calrissian, Pre Vizsla, Sergeant Kreel, Saw Gerrera (Probably in his prime) and (Insert non-FS character here) for example or an amalgamation of all or a few of them.

However, sadly hate to break it to some, but Star Wars.com has an article listing Finn among the great non-Jedi characters: http://www.starwars.com/news/13-great-non-jedi-star-wars-heroes. Albeit, the context is NON-JEDI and not NON-FORCE SENSITIVE, but the general contextual implication is indeed non-FS characters.

Just my two cents...

Yeah, guess I'm not seeing how her statements equate to no romance between them in further episodes beyond TFA? A great deal of couples start off as extremely close friends of a brother and sister variety prior to romance.

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About Romance in the larger sense:

There's no evidence for Reylo, it's just shippers doing shipping things. Right now the only thing they know about each other is that they're on opposite ends of the Force.
Same with FinnPo, again, just shippers doing shipping things. They're just friends and co-Resistance members.
There's more evidence that Finn and Rey could end up together, but they could end up just friends. To be fair, they haven't engaged in that much conversation beyond what was required to survive, but it was evident they got to know another enough for Rey to feel comfortable enough to challenge Finn's desire to flee and feel disappointed when she couldn't get through to him and for Finn to feel the need to go save her.
We'll have to see what evidence about Rose/Finn, Poe/Holdo, Rey/whoever if that's the route they want to take.

One of the reasons I could see them leaving Rey single is because of the misguided belief that a strong, independent woman cannot embody those ideas in a story if she ends up in a romance with a man. Thus, I could see them working from that and leaving Finn and Rey at sort of a brother/sister love angle.

I doubt Finn and Rose would become an item. She's a brand new character. I can't say it's impossible since they wrote in a tragic romance for Cassian Andor and Jyn Erso in Rogue One which developed over the span of a few days and one major mission. Although, I would feel a Finn/Rose pairing would come out of no where and simply be done to kill a Finn/Rey pairing and it would only work if Rose and Finn, or I should say John and Kelly Marie Tran have more relationship chemistry than Daisy and John did in TFA.

Ultimately, Star Wars romances on screen haven't been the best written romances. The point being, based on history I don't think it's fair to expect it to be written in such a way that you can hand pick who will end up with who with just one installment of the trilogy. Han and Leia being the prime example. In the OT, the movie toyed with the idea that Leia and Luke were going to become an item with Han being jealous then flipped to Han and Leia becoming an item and we didn't see that much interaction between them when they were revealed to be so in love. Especially in ROTJ when Han still thought Leia was talking about Luke in a romantic way until Leia revealed she meant that Luke was her brother.

 

I'd love to have finn being FS . But If he isn't FS, I 'd like something like the Force is with him. I don't know how to explain it. He was able to go in the right direction on Jakku. He could have lost himself. I 'd like to think even if he didn't feel the force. The force is with him. He can't use the Force okay. But the force will protect him?

because Finn at the moment he chose to do the right thing, the force decided lol , "I like him, I'm going to help him " . I know it doesn't make any sense. But something like at the same time, he could be force resistant , because the force is protecting him from the ones who uses the force against him?

I know it doesn't make any sense. It 's my way to express, I want Finn being special but not in the traditionnal way , in a new unseen way?

or something like he could be to connect with a force user , to help to control , i don't know.

Like you know, having rey with that huge raw power, overwhelming her, but when she is with Finn, he is like a stabilizer? Or just like they were together in falcon being pursue , it was something great, a force symbiosis?

My imagination is running wild tonight.

 

Aside from the Vietnam market, LucasFilm hasn't been advertising Rose to Korea, Japan, China and those other Asian markets at all.

So I don't see LucasFilm pushing Rose in a certain direction just to satisfy those markets.

A generalization, but it's not like Japan, China, and Korean audiences look at a Vietnamese American as a big deal anyway.


And I say this as a Kelly Marie Tran fan.

 

I think it's presumptuous to presume the East Asian market would even care about a Finn/Rose pairing in an American made film.

It's too general to use Japanese beliefs as a broad brush to paint the Chinese, Vietnamese, Taiwanese, Koreans, Mongolians, etc. of the East Asian ethnic groups. While many of their beliefs have similarities in regard to ethnic relations and coupling, they are not always the same. The devil is always in the details.

I would argue this is Westernized ideology. East Asians seem to enjoy Western stuff simply because it's a good story and not because it represents them just like people over here enjoy East Asian stuff simply because they like the stories and not because of where it comes from. I know some people do in certain aspects of entertainment culture such as Anime-Fans, Kung-Fu fans, etc. But that's more genre than ethnic based. It's only in the West do we get up in arms about ethnic representation and those cultures influenced by this ideology. I would argue, East Asians, while probably happy Rose is in the story, care more about the story of Star Wars.

 

Once again @BrotherRoyVA you have shown me something new. Sergeant Kreel is a bad mofo...I have little faith in the foresight of Lucasfilm to think along these lines but if Finn became a lightside version of him, that would be pretty awesome.

 

Devil's advocate:

For Dragonball, Goku is the male lead, Bulma is the female lead.

It was Bulma on her quest for the titled Dragonballs that was the initial story but it's what pulled Goku to tag along. The boy initially had nothing to do with the situation.

Goku is the one with rising levels of power over the series though training and is the obvious lead.

Bulma is still there but became a support character to Goku.

Now swap the names Finn for Bulma and Rey for Goku.

 

I wonder if Finn and rey really are family

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2017 ---

Factsss

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2017 ---

According to the 13 non Jedi link it says “Finn doesn’t quite have a handle on how the force works— WHAT Finn lacks in force sensitivity”... so WHAT Finn lacks IN force sensitivity is not knowing how the force works, according to that post

 

Yeah, I don't think Bulma was ever presented as anything other than a catalyst character in DB tho. Goku was always expected to be the main character. Whenever they got into situations, he did the fighting. As opposed to TFA, when Rey and Finn got into situations they both did the fighting. I understand where Corn Cream is coming from and I chalk it up to how fans of Star Wars have been trained by SW creators to think about the universe, mainly in the movie area, when it comes to main character status. I also think it adds more fuel to the fire to constantly compare the status of Finn and Rey in a war over who is more important or more impactful. Yet, I do resort to doing it at times to point out to Rey defenders or simply fans who think Finn is but a nice sidekick character that Finn had far more influence on the story, as far as TFA goes, than Rey did. Call him a catalyst character similar to Bulma in DB, sure, but it doesn't follow that he will continue to be one throughout the remaining two installments, nor does that indicate a bad thing. Nor am I saying this is what you advocate by playing Devil's Advocate here, Lars. Just saying.

Yeah, that's what I was hinting at when I said the article says NON-JEDI characters with the implication of Non-FS characters, but when you read Finn's write up it makes you go hmmmm....

 

One thing about these “force sensitives” nowadays is they don’t they don’t have to watch their back too much (from enemy force sensitives), cuz if the person ain’t white they won’t have to worry about it, cuz only one group of ppl have the force so all they gotta do is look out for someone white, then get worried cuz ppl of color don’t have force

exactly lol I was on reddit talking about that post with others and me saying that made their blood boil and they’re Like “NOOO DAMNIT! FINN AINT FORCE SENSITIVE, ITS THE REY AND KYLO CHRONICLES!!!”
Yeah so if it’s just Rey and Kylo(and Luke) this trilogy will be very predictable and possible future battles are very limited to 3 ppl, and I guess 4 including snoke, but there’s only so many ways episode 9 can go down if it’s all about them, and it will not be surprising or exciting to see that....

 

Rey is the lead character Kylo is the antagonist. Finn was a co lead in TFA, we don't really know for Tlj.

It doesn't mean that because Finn isn't in front stage of attention, he is not important to the story and crucial to the story too.

I will too take an example. Hunger games, the books ( not the movies, they changed a lot of things and to my opinion down played a lot Peeta's character )

So Katniss everdeen is the main lead, main protagonist, no question about that . But without Peeta Mellark 's character. She'll be dead. she wouldn't have been the face of the rebellion. Take out Peeta Mellark of the story . There is no story. No Rebellion, nothing. That doesn't take away from the fact katniss everdeen is hunger games lead and heroine. But you can't dismiss Peeta Mellark 's pivotal and crucial role either during the three books.

to say, it's not because Rey is the main protagonist, Finn 's role will not be important, not pivotal or not crucial. But in terms of exposures it will be always about Rey. Like it always had been about Katniss everdeen. (The interesting thing is that for Katniss everdeen pov, the true hero is Peeta Mellark not herself ).

 

Sometimes this thread just leaps in pages:

Summary opinion on some of the topics:

1. Rose (romantic or otherwise) is just as a much as a consolation prize character, or fob off, as Phasma is in regards to Finn. From her character description she literally fulfils the same role that Rey did for Finn's character in TFA.
2. Chewbacca? Jesus. Better than C3P0 I suppose.
3. I don't think Boyega's hiding anything in regards to Finn's role in TLJ. I doubt anyone is hiding anything in relation to Finn's role in TLJ. They've likely shown us shots of Finn vs Phasma because, despite being Finn's highlight or peak of TLJ, it is likely entirely vacuous in relation to the crux of the film. It costs them nothing to show it.

In hindsight, there were two twists, not one, in TFA which guaranteed Finn's reduction in prominence for TLJ. The well known red herring which revealed Rey as the young Jedi hopeful and the other the reveal of Kylo as Ben Solo.

As an aside, does anyone else wonder if this scene is the start of a segue from another?

Like Rey in danger? A vision or just neat transition?

 

I have considered this comparison myself unfortunately one of my primary reasons for hating the Hunger Games was the treatment of Peeta in the story and in particular Katniss selfishness and dismissal of him....

 

Katniss was a flawed character ( unlike Rey for now lol ) . But the hunger games movies were really badly done concerning Peeta 's character and in fact the other characters too were butchered. Even in the books when Katniss was selfish, it never took away from what Peeta mellark was as a character, how brillant he was and important. Katniss was messed up but whatever she was thinking at times. It didn't took away the greatness of peeta's character.

I hated the movies by the way.

so I hope Finn will be a great written character, essential, crucial and pivotal even if he is not the main character;

 

Even as a Finn fan, I do agree with you that the revelations of Rey being force sensitive and Kylo being of Skywalker descent in TFA, knocked Finn down the totem pole as far as importance.

So much so, that right now you have fans adamant that Rey is a Skywalker too (not from evidence but because they prefer it despite evidence) , thus Kylo being a Skywalker doesn't matter, as long as we have a "good" Skywalker.

And that Finn must absolutely have the Force, no question.

I think we have to accept the possibility (not 100%, but just the possible notion) that Rey is simply the new force sensitive unrelated hero, while Kylo is a main character because (despite his allegiances) he is the last Skywalker descendant.

 

Everyone keeps saying Rey is the lead, but I don't see people interested in her story. Not trying to argue, but a lead has to be more than just people saying it. I don't know what I'm suppose to be interested in when it comes to Rey. If she doesn't know. How the he'll could I know? Just because some people keep going over the same questions about Rey and only Rey doesn't make her more interesting. It's almost like some are trying to say we have to follow her whether you like it or not.

I'm going by the film. I look at who impacted the film, and what roles people could possibly play based on what was given. I'm pretty good at knowing how things go, and there is no way they can ignore the true catalyst for everything without this trilogy eventually being seen as a laughing stock once the hype settles down. People will start to question what they saw, and if there are a bunch of holes without explanations people will see it. I don't think they want people to come to the conclusion they deliberately weakened the black character just to make the white characters seem more significant. That would be an embarrassing.

 

That's a good point! I never thought about Finn waking up due to him "sensing" Rey was in trouble; possibly when Luke is warning Rey about Snoke.

 

LOL so now we have recently compared Finn to Peeta and Chewbaca... all that's left is a Xander reference and the cycle will be complete.

There is a lot that has to be stitched together and resolved in this movie. But the way that Leia, Luke, and Han seemed to be orbiting around each other and traveling together through out the trilogy, I don't think we're going to see that with Finn and Rey because if he chooses the Resistance, she doesn't have much of an arc within that realm. I'd honestly be surprised if they travel together again based on how divergent they and their goals seem to be.

That said you know what we haven't talked about (to the best of my knowledge): How SHE is going to react to seeing him. Finn wakes up and is looking for her, because the last time he saw her she was unconscious. But the last time Rey saw Finn he was unconscious too. Finn has been her only friend besides BB-8 (we know the meeting with Luke was a chilly one). The moment Finn and Rey meet has to mean something for both of them even if they ultimately sail away in their own directions afterward. Agree or disagree?

 

.........Fascinating..... It could be cool or it could piss me off. If they segue from rey being distressed or in danger, but then don't confirm that finn is FS, i'll be highly annoyed because then we'd be looking at another two years of endless speculation and debate as to whether or not he is.

 

Neither would be where they are without the other. Their reunion has to be more special than Han, Luke, and Leia. They don't have anyone else, but each other.