Official Finn Episode VIII thread

There's no logical argument to change your taste preference. Myself and many others don't think it's mediocre. The standard "go-to" is just agreeing to disagree because nothing you say is going to change something I liked and nothing I say is going to change something you hate.

We've laid out very well thought out arguments about the narrative. You don't like the story choice and you're lashing out because we don't agree.

 

What you just said sounds like programming a robot or computer to give me a specific output based on the data I feed it. He is criticized by Rose for wanting to leave the Resistance, but praises him when he leaves the FO. Criticizes him when he knows the exits on the FO ship instead of praise for having a way for them to escape. That's programming. What Finn wants doesn't matter. His role just like it was with the FO is to serve the Resistance.
Where he comes from? Doesn't matter.
Who is he really? Doesn't matter.
How was he able to break his conditioning when no other Stormtrooper has? Doesn't matter.
Finn's arc is not discovering anything about himself, and that is unfulfilling.

I liked Canto Bight more than I liked Luke and Rey on Achto. At least Canto Bight was different. Rey and Luke was a rehash of Luke and Yoda with no substance behind it.

 

You:

Me:

You see it right? I said, my dislike is hardly the lump sum of the problem. I don't just say it's a mediocre arc and stop there, if I did, then fine your rejoinder is appropriate. But I go on to say it's poorly done with cavalier attention to actual character motivation and logic. That doesn't simply distill that down to, preference and taste. If you didn't mind the problems in execution, so be it - say that, and we can still agree to disagree. Nothing's going to change your mind about something you love either.

But you can't characterize this as merely criticism due to story decisions when I am laying out issues clearly related to HOW they wrote the story, not JUST the story they chose.

 

I guess the best way to discuss this is just go by what your outlined:

This is a matter of opinion. I'm fine with this outcome for Finn.

Finn has seen the brutality of the First Order first hand. His choice is to do nothing and continue to run from the First Order or fight.

I don't understand this criticism. It would be better if the Rebellion was stringer and he joined? Why?

Finn defeats Phasma and he's part of the Rebellion. Luke is the one that saves the day. Finn now has something just to fight for and friends he cares about saving.

What you have outlined isn't "mediocre writing." Finn's arc has been explained over and over. Your argument to that's this is mediocre isn't adding up. These are story choice complaints.

 

You know what guys let change the topic to something we can talk about that is in the movie and novel for the last Jedi that is positive about Finn, that is Finn and Rey ship lol. I read the novel and there a lot of reference to Rey and Finn thinks a lot about each other. In the Novel many times Rey said to herself and Luke that the Resitance and Finn and her self needs Luke. One line she said to her self that the FO will destroy the Resistance, Finn, everyone she cares about. There many other lines like this from Rey in the novel, who else notice this? And the three people in TLJ that touched the Jedi books was Luke, Rey, and Finn.

Also there another theory out there Finn might be a mandalore

 

What does Finn have to fight for?

 

You do know that everyone has a right to have and voice an opinion right? That's all it is at the end of the day; an opinion. This is what message boards are for.
Explaining Finn's arc over and over won't make anyone like it. Just like explaining Luke's arc over and over won't make anyone like that either. If you like any of these things Rey's, Poe's or Kylo's arcs or TLJ as a movie overall, that's fine but don't speak as if your opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong just because you don't agree with it.

Even though I can appreciate the fact that Finn had more of an effect on the overarching plot in TFA as opposed to TLJ, I still don't like the way he was portrayed in that film either. I still don't like the bait and switch, I still don't like the comedic relief angle and even though I prefer it to the near heroic sacrifice in TFA to the one in TLJ I still don't like that either. All this has been explained over and over again for two years now and it hasn't made me like how Finn was handled in TFA more, it just made me dislike his handling in TLJ even more.

They made him a little more serious in TLJ, which I did appreciate and have expressed either here or elsewhere online, however he had less of an effect on the overarching plots. In my opinion (read the bolded again) it defeats the purpose to make him more serious if he's not even going to effect any of the plots in any substantial way that makes him look better as a character.

I say all that to say, you can like the Finn's arc all you want and that's fine, but most of the rest of us don't and that's fine too.

 

Where did I say they didn't have a right to an opinion? If you're gonna jump in the middle of a conversation it's wise to get the context.

Precisely what I said in the context of the conversation.

 

Finn’s arch did suck.

 

It's actually not as much an opinion as you're suggesting. "Pedestrian" is a synonym for "commonplace". Would anybody like to make the argument that in the ST the most commonly encountered characters are not either Resistance or FO?

That feels like an oversimplification. Yes Finn has seen the brutality of the FO first hand. However, his first choice was to not participate in the brutality. His second choice was to leave. His third choice was to fight alongside the Resistance but without joining them. This hard requirement for a binary conflict where there can only be two sides is puzzling to me. But setting that aside for now, the story Rian wanted to tell was one a two sides. He also wanted Finn to become a Resistance fighter (pedestrian though it was). And I am simply asking out loud, can we at least do it with some cogent character development? Can Finn choose to fight based on his life, his morals, his experience, his motivations and not someone else's? Is that really so much to ask?

When was the last time you joined something while it was being annihilated in real time? Joining the Resistance now is as intuitive as him joining the Jakku Villagers while they were being wiped out in TFA. It's not an impossibility, but without providing or at least demonstrating that he had an internal reason to do so, it becomes obvious the action is not organic but rather required by the plot and THAT is my criticism. If a character doesn't have internal motivation to be where the plot needs him to be, he or she might as well be furniture.

And yet... his formal entry into the Resistance changes nothing. Just as I said it didn't. If Finn doesn't join the Resistance in TLJ not a single thing changes in TLJ. Everything he did as a Resistance Fighter he did in TFA fighting along side Resistance Fighters. There was nothing at stake in TLJ whether he did or he didn't join. I challenge anyone to try to prove me wrong on this. Anyone.

This is definitely your opinion. These are not story choice complaints; and no amount of repetition of that claim will make it so. The only way these are story decisions is if in your mind, Rian chose to make Finn's plot driven nature obvious and clunky. I did not regard bad or insufficiently developed writing of a character to be a deliberate choice; moreso a side effect of just not being as interested in telling this portion of the story. Maybe you see that differently.

 

Yep

You are really trying to argue that one problem with Finn's arc is that he joins the resistance when it's near annihilation. That's a specific story choice complaint.

we don't see eye-to-eye on this as I said earlier today. Your attempts to create some sort of objective measure of mediocre writing and apply it to Finn's arc aren't convincing.

I sincerely believe that would be waste of time.

 

I have had this theory and a few others...unfortunately I don't think there is that much investment in Finn's arc or backstory ( and lazy writing overall) makes me doubt if ANY theory about Finn is likely to matter.

 

Just because they or others try to minimize him doesn't make for a better story. If anything it makes for a weaker story. The attempt to make a female an action star is a big task in itself. Most people won't see it as believable. Especially when they aren't that physical themselves. It waters down the movie, and it doesn't make for great back and forth battles. Finn's character had to be watered down the most in order for Rey to shine. Then you have the media placing most of their focus on Rey when there isn't anything of interest to discuss.

This is suppose to have been a Star Wars movie, but in reality it has been a desire to make some characters stand out while ignoring the story. Based on how this thing has been presented it's either Rey or Kylo. Everyone else is suppose to play support to them, but suppose you aren't interested in them like that? Neither of them have worked hard for anything. Everything has been given to both characters. There is no reason for anyone to be inspired by what is going on. People are interested in how the individual eventually comes to work with the collective. Not where individuals join a collective with no clear motivations of their own. Rey, Finn, and Kylo are doing things we don't really understand. We have no real reasons from Kylo on what drives him. Kylo is with the FO just because. Just like Rey and Finn are with the Resistance.

None of the characters have been fully developed, and the attempt to make it more Rey and Kylo just makes it worse. This movie is suppose to be about the consequences of a galaxy. There is no way you can make a great trilogy where the focus is only on two people. It doesn't sound exciting at all. Especially when one of them is a woman playing the hero in an action movie.

 

I'm inspired by these well developed characters because of the media. Sure, that's the ticket!

 

I am with you on that. The reason he has no real arch he will over shawdow Rey this why he gets no serious developement. Rey is the main focus, she does not train,but controls the Force better than Luke and Kylo Ren. If Finn was made force senstive or make his part in the movie as intresting as Rey more fans will like to see him more and talk about him more than Rey just like before the Release of TFA people was talking more about him than Rey. This why he has no real arch so he does not look on the smae level as Rey . In 9 we see will see him official Rey’s side kick.

 

I honestly have no idea why he should be anything but a support actor in EPIX 9, his relevance to the story has just continued to diminish Episode after Episode such that at this point we are to view joining "the Resistance" as the strengthening he needed coming out of TFA, which effectively establishes his ceiling. Adding more screen time doesn't change that ceiling.

He isn't Finn the former Storm Trooper turned [insert interesting development here]. What makes Finn special is that he isn't special. He's not even Finn the former Storm Trooper turned Resistance (because recall, most of the advocates for Ordinary-EveryMan Finn say he has no past worth exploring that wasn't already accomplished in fighting Phasma in the hangar bay) he is Finn the Resistance fighter. Not even sure if he'll have a rank (he's a regular person, why would he need a rank). He will probably just work on space vehicles with Rose so we can finally do the much anticipated exploration of the life of a Rebellion mechanic. It will provide great contrast against Rey using the force, Light Saber, and Millennium Falcon, to fight the actual fight. Maybe at some point Finn could help repair the Falcon so they can share a moment.

 

If you look at TLJ real good Rose Tico was preparing Finn to be part of the Resitance in the novel of the last jedi Rose teach Finn how to fly and how the Resitance views him as a hero. The Resistance looks at Rey as the main hero even though it was Luke who they was looking for him to return and save the galacy. But at the end it was Rey who moved the rocks and saved them. This mean she is now the main hero everyone else including Finn are to assist her, and now Finn official part of the Resistance so he her side kick.

 

Helped blow up SKB. Defeated Capitan Phasma. Fought at the battle of Crait. Part of the new Rebellion. Seems pretty special to me.

 

If you look at TLJ real good Rose Tico was preparing Finn to be part of the Resitance in the novel of the last jedi Rose teach Finn how to fly and how the Resitance views him as a hero. The Resistance looks at Rey as the main hero even though it was Luke who they was looking for him to return and save the galacy. But at the end it was Rey who moved the rocks and saved them. This mean she is now the main hero everyone else including Finn are to assist her, and now Finn official part of the Resistance so he her side kick.
Finn and Rose relationship in the novel is Finn learning more about the Resistance, and Rose hurting her self to save Finn is now Finn truly seeing the world in the eyes of a Resistance fighter now he has a connection with them and their cause. Finn’s arch in the last jedi is set up as a side charcter only and why his scenes was majority of the cuts in the deleted scenes because he is not the main charcter he is a side charcter who story has no effect on the main plot so this why they were deleted.

 

Helped blow up SKB: so did everyone else that participated in the op. I give him no more or less credit. Nothing special about it.
Defeated Captain Phasma: Like Han defeated Boba Fett. Nothing special about it.
Fought at the battle of Crait: as did everyone else left in the Resistance. Nothing special about it.

I'm not sure if I'll ever understand the want to see Finn as every day and ordinary and yet special, at the same time. If folks wanted an organic C3PO I think that's what they got in TLJ. There's no need to exaggerate his accomplishments afterwards to make it more than what it was.

Finn is basically a black male Lt. Connix, and honestly I think that's what the "Ordinary Finn" crew wanted and the franchise delivered.