Official Finn Episode VIII thread

I can't speak for anyone else but that's exactly what the terms "heart and soul" and any other similar description comes off as to me, especially in reference to Finn. I recall the time someone referenced a quote by either Abrams or Hidalgo, from a question a fan had, I think, regarding Finn's competence in TFA. I think the reply was something along the lines of "I thought Finn was the bravest character in the movie." Vague and evasive statements like that don't exactly inspire any confidence in the people who are actually really invested in Finn as a character or his arc going forward.

 

You see here is thing I don't disagree with Finn being the Bravest...but that is a function of his lack of skills or to be more precise the relative power difference.

Same reason Batman is more Brave then Superman...Clark flies in knowing he is unlikely to get hurt.
Batman swings knowing anything could kill him.

So Finn is more brave compared to Poe or Rey because his skills arent on their level.

But your right I dont give a **** about him being the bravest or whatever....I want skills and the respect a supposed Co-Lead Deserves.

No Jokes and Just being the hearty=

 

So, the "heart and soul" comment, I think the first problem with it is that it's not true. He's not the "heart and soul" of the story. I think we can (and do) identify with some of the characteristics out of all the 3 main characters (Kylo, Rey, and Finn). There's a piece in them that we can see in all ourselves, their collective stories are the heart and soul of TFA.

Finn is certainly more integral to the plot of the TFA than anyone else, but that's not the same as being it's heart (which is what I think people are wrongfully equating). But I also think they mention it as a counter to the argument that Finn is unimportant to the film; which is also not true he is. But I think the level of nuance we have to reach is to acknowledge that Finn drives the movie plot but that doesn't resolve the issues with his gravitas of his character. There are a number of great things we can say about the Finn character (at least I know I can) while at the same time acknowledging he needs gravitas and he didn't get it in TFA.

His comic relief needed to be proportional to his combat proficiency. I think TPTB have heard this criticism (many times over now) and I think you're going to see that reflected (because I don't think they ever intended a bad arc for Finn).

That said there is nothing wrong with acknowledging some of Finn's visible attributes. I myself noted (in the TFA Finn thread) that Finn has a story that's unique from most hero's journeys in that, usually the hero gets the power, and then has to develop the moral capability to wield it. Finn is the opposite. He is demonstrating that he is morally capable of wielding the power before he gets it. It will make him that much better in the long run. I look forward to Finn's maturation in Episode 8

 

Anecdotes about what some insiders say about the term "heart and soul" aren't really relevant. I mean that in context of these forums people have been using the term as shorthand as the character easiest to identify with, the one that they found emotional connection with, the one who people deeply cared about. Its not a slight, it's not a diminishing its acknowledging that people saw him as a connection to the main themes of the film.

Skills are not required to be a great character. Never being funny is not required to be taken seriously.

 

Going to have to disagree with the skills point. This entire series is centered around war when you break it down to it's basic premise. In this particular franchise you do have to have skills to be a great character. That's the reason the majority of the fan base is so enamored with Rey. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, in action films the attention of the fan base is going to be on the characters with action skills, that's just reality. If we were talking strictly about dramas that don't involve action you would be right but we're talking about action movies here.
As far as the comment that about Finn being funny, I don't think anyone is saying he shouldn't be funny or have comedic moments at all. I think I can safely speak for all of us that have made comments in regards to that particular subject when I say it's about balance. Balance being don't saddle him too much with comedic moments because it has the effect of obscuring the fact that he's supposed to be a character we take seriously.

 

Star Wars is a space fantasy epic so while I think all of us would like to see more action but one can be a great character without it being all highlight real. I also think that there is a lot of room to showcase additional skills other than shooting, planning a successful escape, manning multiple guns, coming up with the plan to deal with troopers with the poison gas, and so on.

 

http://www.itv.com/news/london/2017...ga-describes-stage-return-like-riding-a-bike/

 

Well said. And to the rest of your point, I don't think anyone could make the case that (for instance) Padme was a bad character in the PT. She was arguably the moral compass and arguably the most integral piece of the ST. There is no OT or ST without Padme - point blank. But seriously, how many more Rey mrechandise pieces do you expect to see vs Padme? Padme wasn't a pushover and I'm glad she did finally get some action, but she was largely sidelined from the action (and subsequent glory) while the Jedi did all the heavy lifting. Padme isn't a bad character, her importance to the entire franchise is clear, and yet the lack of sustained combat reduces her gravitas in a way that will NEVER happen to Rey.

 

Thank you for keeping it real. 100% agree. If Jesse Plemons had been cast as Finn (he was a finalist if I recall) I seriously doubt there would have been this much clamoring for a Finn Poe love connection especially totally ignoring any chances with Rey and Finn.

 

So is everyone.

So is everyone.

Deleted.

In scenes that are played out as moments of awesome for other characters.

He was able to get his arse kicked multiple times so that the film could reinforce the idea that Rey is the True Hero(tm).

Did they ever use that poison? No? Then it wasn't relevant.

Sure. Since we never see him take a whizz we can also assume he has some special urine replacement skills too.

 

I agree, she was my favorite character of the PT...most consistent. But the trilogy was also not about her, but Anakin. To some extent it was about her and Anakin's relationship, but even that felt secondary to the friendship and then loss of friendship between Anakin and Obi-wan.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 28, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 28, 2017 ---

I'm fine with jokes. Star wars is for the children (this is Disney after all) just spread them around. I don't see Finn as the main comic foil al la C3PO. Han got his share of jokes Lando too as a straight man. But to your point. Batman is braver than everybody but because he is a badass everyone takes him serious. We definitely need some badassery added to Finn's character arc.

 

Star Wars was for kids before Disney bought it but sure.

 

But there wasn't really any reason for her to be in many combat situations, she is a Senator in the end. The Battle of Geonosis made sense for her to fight in and she had the minimal role in the retaking of the Palace of Theed, but beyond that it would feel forced for her to be fighting, especially in RotS when she was pregnant.

 

Oh like this

 

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!

 

I can't entirely take credit for this idea as it was floated by someone else in the TFA forum, but it bear repeating and someone has done a nice youtube video supporting the idea. Finn if not a force user at the minimum should have an arc leading him towards a Jace Malcom type. Who was a commando and Republic army leader in the Old republic. This is now legends stuff but their is previous precedent for it in Star Wars and it would be a new character type at least for the saga movies. It also is a seamless transition given Finn's military background. This I could live with, but him as random no name soldier and all around good guy who gets pulled into wacky adventures to boost up the plot..naw not feeling that for a whole trilogy.

 

I'd argue as a Senator it was a bit of a stretch for her to be involved in any combat at all. But my point is, is that despite her strong character attributes, despite even her extensive wardrobe, she will never be as iconic and never be idolized as Rey will be, and it is not a question of character attributes that makes the difference, it's her engagement in the principle dynamic in the Star Wars franchise, Force Usage in the pursuit of saving the galaxy. I'm not sure that anyone will ever successfully argue to the otherwise.

 

I probably would if they had actually let Leia pick up a LS and do some work instead of making her a Rebel General. I know, I know, everyone can't be a Space Samurai... but I personally wouldn't have had a problem with it. I guess in a way, Rey is there chance to capitalize on the missed opportunity with Leia.

On another note, does anyone think that it's curious/important/significant that Finn had his back slashed instead of say, just being stabbed? I mean I know some of us thought this was the segue to mecha Finn, with a cybernetic spine, but in Star Wars with so many details being used to tell the full story, very few details seem at random or just chance. Kylo had to hit Finn so that he spun around and then slice him. Wouldn't a stab have been less work (and probably more fatal)?

 

If anyone feels that Finn's character was misused in the TFA, don't be sad, when he wakes from his sleep, he will rise again like Jesus Christ and be super OP. In RJ I trust... hahaha. If Finn continues on his Jar Jar adventures forget about Star Wars and look forward to the Black Panther in 2018. A king, a scientist, and hero... what more can you ask for?