SPECULATION OFFICIAL: THE FIRST ORDER DISCUSSION THREAD

FYI, I've got a speculation article that I wrote up yesterday evening about what the First Order/Resistance scenario might be. We'll be posting it after Celebration (since we'll undoubtedly have a bunch of articles on that over the next couple of days) but my theory goes along with those who have suggested that there may be a parallel here with the way the post-WWI Treaty of Versailles spawned an even worse situation with Germany.

 

Also looks like some of those glowing boards like the ones in the OT are going on back there to me ...

 

I like the idea of First Order.

I think we're just seeing the film reflect our own world a bit, as good sci fi and fantasy tend to do.

Look at what's happened in Iraq and Libya in recent years, after the fall of a dictator. Look at the rise of extremist groups like ISIS and Boko Haram. I wager what's happened is that Sith/Dark Side loyalists have coalesced around one or two powerful acolytes (Uber and Kylo Ren, maybe others) and formed their own extremist group called First Order out of the ruins of the old Empire.

So maybe they're not Empire proper, but with the galaxy fractured politically and ideologically, or even along certain boundaries (a la Trek's Neutral Zone), they have the resources, they have followers, and they have the ability to conscript soldiers/slaves to fight for them, either through brainwashing or threat of violence to family and loved ones (or entire planetary populations).

Just my $.02.

 

So do you think he will meet Luke as he is visiting that downed star destroyer.

 

No. I don't think Luke will be involved with the Vicar.

 

I also think that maybe this more intense connection to Sith ideology could explain why non-Sith characters like Captain Phasma allegedly use lightsabers. It could be a way to further connect them to the Dark Side, even if they aren't Force users. Total speculation of course, so just a thought.

I'm really leaning toward some sort of militarized Sith cult.

 

I don't think Phasma will use a lightsaber.

 

I don't either.

 

I like where you're going there, but I'm going to flip it around on you with my crack-pot theory.

I think the First Order is a semi-rogue cell that doesn't recognize that the fight is over. I also believe that these two forces are not the main powers of the galaxy.

Here's my rationale - I find it hard to believe that over 30 years, the Rebel Alliance only morphed into the Resistance, especially after such a huge victory at Endor. They would have had some major clout after that. Yes, the Empire was probably not truly defeated, but systems probably flocked to the Alliance after that.

So I speculate that over the next 30 years the Alliance grew in power, the Empire lost some but eventually both became relatively stable, effective governments. If speculation of a possible cold war happening between the two is true, then the two governments probably had an uneasy peace/truce. Maybe even that's where these super weapons come in. Mutually assured destruction and all.

I believe that the First Order is a radicalized faction of the Empire. Probably a group that feels the Empire should never have made peace with the Alliance. And possibly a group that the Empire publicly renounces but maybe even secretly funds. Much like real life governments and groups like Al Quaeda.

Meanwhile, the Alliance for whatever reason isn't doing enough to prevent attacks from the First Order so the Resistance is made up of the people on the ground that our dealing with the day to day attacks and destruction. The Resistance may even be frustrated with the Alliance's response to this group.

So in the end, you basically have four possible factions in the conflict.

Oh, and the super weapons idea - I think this movie might begin by stating that the First Order has taken control of either the Empire's or Alliance's weapon and is about to use it.

 

Maybe he will appear to him uninvited.

 

Paid attention to history, you have...

No offense but I really hope the plot is not that political.

 

None taken. To a degree, I don't either. We had enough politics in the PT. Buuuuut...if this were the set-up/backstory...I'd be ok. Everything I posted above could be laid out in the opening crawl.

Opening Crawl...

It's been 30 years since the battle of Endor and the destruction of the second Death Star.

An uneasy truce has arisen between the Empire and the Republic.

A group calling themselves the First Order has broken off from the Empire and has begun targeting Republic held systems as they search for...something.

Resistance fighters within the Republic struggle to defend their homes.​

 

Yeah, I like seeing the Galaxy through the eye's of everyman guys like Luke and Han...Not one-percenters like Palpatine and Padme. I'd rather see the conflict through a limited lens, rather than having the grand scope of everything being shown/explained to me.

 

You hit the nail on the head.

 

I think it is simple as this: when the Emperor was killed, his absence of power left a vacuum in the galaxy. Whatever entity that filled that vacuum, and succeeded in staying in power, is what is now the First Order. More than likely, the Empire did not die--it merely morphed into an oligarchy of Moffs that eventually evolved into a new Empire called the First Order.

 

Padme was elected. Although she was called the Queen, she was not from a royal family or bloodline.

 

I hate it when work gets in the way of an interesting topic. I'm going to try to catch up later this evening.

There's something that's been on my mind most of the day and I think it could be to do with the semantic differences between 'rebels' and an 'alliance' really.

If we think the start of a ANH we are introduced to the concept of Rebels in a way that leaves no doubt as to who the bad guys are. The striking entrance of Vader and the identikit stormtroopers make it crystal clear to the viewer that the rebels are fighting a mighty evil Empire. The word itself - 'rebels' implies a level of disorganisation in structure when we compare it to the idea of an Alliance.

We often hear of of 'Rebels' fighting dictatorships in far flung parts of the world and the accompanying media imagery is that of battered old jeeps with machine guns gaffers taped onto the back. All smiles, bravery and ideals - but often without the clout to make a real impact. And yes - I am generalising.

An alliance on the other hand implies organisation, cross group co-operation and higher moral ground (to a point).

My view is that, as others have pointed out, that the Empire, without the Emperor and his right hand apprentice has morphed into the First Order and is run by the surviving group of Grand Moffs with someone rising to lead them in a grand despotic manner.

The Rebels have grown and become stronger, more organised and potentially have a wider resource pool. Hence moving from being rebels to a true alliance.

I apologise if anyone has already said this but I've been thinking about and decided to post before I caught up with the thread.

Just today's train of though really.

 

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that I like the "farmboy" perspective more than the "politician" perspective. In the OT we just got little hints about the politics going on, i.e. "The Emporor has dissolved the Senate" in ANH. Just a broad stroke statement. I didn't like watching Starwars C-SPAN in the PT. Seeing people argue in the senate or in they're offices. I would rather see characters discovering themselves in the midst of the backdrop of the galactic conflict....more OT-like.

That shot of the troops in front of the banner is very Prequel-like....not hatin, just sayin

 

I blew this up as much as I could.

That guy we've been wondering about is wearing a variation of an Imperial Officer's uniform, in black, with a long coat, hat etc. Like the guy that strode next to Vader in the opening minutes of ANH, but with a winterized jacket long enough to keep his legs warm. Notice the Chrometrooper to his left.