1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Plot of Episode VI

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by red5, Sep 7, 2014.

  1. red5

    red5 Clone

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Credits:
    523
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Why did Vader stop chasing Luke after the events of episode V? Why didn't he, for example, go after Han again once he realized that Luke had survived and gotten away? He must have known that Luke would try to save Han--why not use that as an opportunity to catch Luke and again tempt him to the dark side?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. jarjarstinks

    jarjarstinks Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    37
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    209
    Credits:
    503
    Ratings:
    +90 / 1 / -1
    This is a good question red5. Maybe it's just that Vader is busy dealing with other stuff, and he can't be bothered waiting around Jabba's palace for Luke to show up. In the interim between ESB and RotJ Luke matures as a Jedi getting strong with his mind control and even building his own lightsaber. There's obviously a good amount of time in there. Vader knows that only he can confront Luke, since his soldiers are really no match for a Jedi, and he wants the opportunity to turn him so no use sending someone else. And I'm sure the Empire and the Hutts have some sort of non-interference agreement that would make it taboo for stormtrooper boots to step foot on Jabba's territory. Plus, during that time, Vader is doing all sorts of stuff preparing for Palpatine's visit to the new death star and just generally carrying out the emperor's orders. And there's that conversation between Vader and Palpy:
    Darth Vader: The Death Star will be completed on schedule
    Palpatine: You have done well, Lord Vader. And now I sense you wish to continue your search for young Skywalker.
    Vader: Yes, my Master.
    Palpatine: Patience, my friend. In time, he will seek you out. And when he does, you must bring him before me. He has grown strong. Only together can we turn him to the dark side of the Force.
    Vader: As you wish.
    Palpatine: Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen. [laughs wickedly]

    This conversation follows the rescue of Han from Jabba's palace suggesting that during that time Vader was really preoccupied with getting the death star II operational, and also that Vader need not seek out Luke, but just have Luke come to him. Vader is more of a pawn than anything in these movies anyway. He doesn't dare go ahead and do anything without his Master's blessing.

    Hope that at least gives a plausible answer to your question.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  3. red5

    red5 Clone

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Credits:
    523
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    That's a nice answer. However, even without Vader getting directly involved, it would have been simple for him to just send some Imperial troops to take Han from Jabba. Given the value of Han as a prisoner, and his value as a Luke-attractor, it seems that this would have been worth sending one star destroyer, which is all it would have taken. Vader himself would not have needed to go. I think we have to suppose that Palpatine forbid Vader from doing something like this. And that would presumably be because Palpatine wanted Luke to complete his training with Yoda. But why would Palpatine want that? It seems easier to either kill or corrupt him when he's half-trained, right? At least that's what Yoda and Obi-Wan say in V.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  4. jarjarstinks

    jarjarstinks Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    37
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    209
    Credits:
    503
    Ratings:
    +90 / 1 / -1
    You make some good points here. I'm still going to stick with my previous idea that Vader sending anyone in to take anything from Jabba might upset relations between Jabba and the empire. Assuming that Jabba has friends in high places, it wouldn't be worth it to Vader and Palpatine to lose such an ally. If Palpy prophesized that Luke would come to them, then it simply wouldn't be worth the effort. Plus, Palpatine is extremely arrogant and confident in his abilities to turn luke to the dark side regardless of how strongly he was trained. Besides, Luke hasn't really completed his training until after having confronted vader at the end of RotJ. Palpatine would still see him as vulnerable regardless.
     
  5. Ceruleanlord

    Ceruleanlord Rebel General

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Posts:
    675
    Likes Received:
    857
    Trophy Points:
    4,839
    Credits:
    2,523
    Ratings:
    +1,463 / 7 / -6
    You can't assume that Palpatine or Vader knew Luke was being trained by Yoda.
    Vader thinks Luke's training came from Obi-Wan. Palpatine was in the process of setting up the trap for the rebels at the battle of Endor, that was why he showed up at the Death Star, to witness their defeat.
    Vader in no way would ever set foot on Tatooine again, too many memories, besides the last thing he would want is to start a war with the Hutts.
     
  6. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Posts:
    771
    Likes Received:
    1,586
    Trophy Points:
    8,249
    Credits:
    2,696
    Ratings:
    +2,473 / 24 / -4
    I've always assumed that the Emperor probably reacted rather badly to Vader's failure to either turn or kill Luke at Bespin. Vader was probably assigned to something other than the pursuit of Skywalker and the Rebels, not only as punishment for his failure, but also because the Emperor was planning the trap at Endor and continuing to send that massive fleet running around the galaxy in search of the Rebels wasn't part of that plan. It always sounded like he had split the Imperial Starfleet up all over the galaxy to make it appear that they were blindly searching, as he had successfully created this impression by the time of the Rebel briefing at Sullust prior to Endor.

    So, the Emperor knew that the new Death Star would be bait enough to get Luke to come a' running, and he also probably suspected, given Anakin's soft spot for his own family, that Luke would probably try to turn Vader back from the dark side. As for Vader, he still basically did what the Emperor ordered him to do, and I suspect that the Emperor ordered him to stand down as far as his search for Luke.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  7. Voltar

    Voltar Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    42
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    127
    Credits:
    641
    Ratings:
    +49 / 1 / -1
    I think the answer is in the movie (the radio drama version adds a little more of Palpatine rubbing it in too). Vader was Palpatine's servant and was allowed time to hunt for Luke at Palpatine's convenience.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Darth Pimp

    Darth Pimp Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Posts:
    65
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Credits:
    545
    Ratings:
    +78 / 4 / -0
    It's a really interesting set of dynamics involved with Palpatine's handling of the Vader/Luke situation. Personally, if anything was REALLY his undoing it was his ruthless persistence of being the consummate opportunist. Palps didn't care which of the two came out on top- so long as he benefitted by having a new usable puppet when it was all said and done. I think Luke figured this out well before he even met the man, whereas Vader knew deep down inside that he was merely an inadequate Palpatine-wannabe/failure. I think Vader wanted to turn Luke mostly to comfort his own Darkside ego and personal shortcomings, and secondly to overthrow the Emperor.
     
  9. Cole

    Cole Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    4,099
    Trophy Points:
    13,807
    Credits:
    5,238
    Ratings:
    +5,515 / 125 / -33
    It's possible that Vader's still paying Boba to hang out at Jabba's, keeping an eye on Carbonite Han, and to report if Luke shows up. Using Han as bait is how he got Luke to come to Bespin. He's probably got minions out there searching for Luke. He wants Luke to help him overthrough Palpatine, so he's probably keeping his search on the DL.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Kibble

    Kibble Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Posts:
    167
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    607
    Credits:
    551
    Ratings:
    +247 / 22 / -13
    I always thought that like the Emperor came up with the plan to trap the Rebel Alliance right after The Empire Strikes Back, after Darth Vader tells him he failed to turn Luke. AFAIK not much time passed between the two movies.
     
  11. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2014
    Posts:
    1,376
    Likes Received:
    1,835
    Trophy Points:
    6,587
    Credits:
    3,070
    Ratings:
    +2,598 / 18 / -12
    That's an interesting concept... but it doesn't seem to gel with the fact that Boba appeared fine to let the execution of Luke go through, which surely Vader would not have wanted, if Boba was indeed in his employ somehow.

    We could speculate that perhaps Jabba discovered this deal (not sure how, seeing as Boba was so secretive) and somehow offered Boba something to renege on his deal... But even if he didn't really adhere to the Imperial way, I not sure he'd really risk personally pissing off Vader.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  12. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Posts:
    771
    Likes Received:
    1,586
    Trophy Points:
    8,249
    Credits:
    2,696
    Ratings:
    +2,473 / 24 / -4
    I don't think that Luke had anything figured out at all. He knew only that he wanted to turn his father back from the dark side, and was willing to risk his life to try. He really knew nothing about the Emperor on a personal level until he finally met him face to face. And even then, he didn't really get how little the Emperor cared for the outcome of his and Vader's duel until he got hit with that first blast of lightning.

    But I completely agree with you that the Emperor's achilles heel was the fact that he was such an opportunist. Luke did rightly sense that the Emperor's overconfidence was his weakness, and I think you've identified the second element of that weakness as his lack of interest in the outcome of that duel. He was making at least a cursory attempt to get a read on Luke, but like a child who has already forgotten one Christmas present and moved on to the next one, he didn't pay a lick of attention to the conflict brewing within Vader. Not until that conflict had boiled over and ol' Palps was being launched over that railing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  13. Darth Pimp

    Darth Pimp Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Posts:
    65
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Credits:
    545
    Ratings:
    +78 / 4 / -0
    Fair enough- and probably correct (definitely logical). For me, it was just something about Luke's facial expression and body language when Sidious was telling him that "he looked forward to completing his training...". Luke looked at him as if to say, "You-overconfident-pompous-jackass. You're-not-converting-ME-today-idiot!" -Sorta makes me feel as if Luke truly thought he understood what he was walking into, especially, after Yoda's final warning about "not underestimating the Emporer's power...".
     
  14. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Posts:
    771
    Likes Received:
    1,586
    Trophy Points:
    8,249
    Credits:
    2,696
    Ratings:
    +2,473 / 24 / -4
    Yeah, but look at the expressions on his face throughout the rest of the encounter. Particularly when he was hiding from Vader. He initially stood up to the Emperor with a certain degree of bravado, but as the encounter wore on, that bravado quickly faded, and by the time he was hiding from Vader under the throne platform, he looked like he'd been backed to the edge of a cliff, which in a way he had.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  15. Deadeye

    Deadeye Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Posts:
    100
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    417
    Credits:
    1,010
    Ratings:
    +250 / 14 / -3
    I disagree with the premise of the question.

    How was Vader supposed to know that Jabba was going to use Han as a wall decoration? Presumably, most people who have bounties put out on them don't live to talk about it. My guess is that Vader reasoned that Solo would be dead as soon as he arrived back on Tatooine under Jabba's control.

    Another point, both Vader and Palpatine wanted Luke to help them destroy one another. I think Vader needed to be careful about giving the appearance of remaining loyal to Palpy, so he was following orders and doing the other things that the Emperor had ordered. And those orders did not include further pursuit of Luke.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  16. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Posts:
    884
    Likes Received:
    662
    Trophy Points:
    6,687
    Credits:
    1,899
    Ratings:
    +1,116 / 56 / -19
    Time wise, only about 6mo goes by between TESB & ROTJ.
    That time is fairly brief. Leia, Luke, Chewbacca & Lando make the smart move and PLAN to rescue Han from Jabba The Hutt. It's inferred that Lando & Chewie are going after Boba Fett & the Slave One but it makes more sense for them to take a measured response on Tatootine.
    Luke COULD have regained his strength(from his serious injuries) & may have visited Yoda in the 6mo period(GL & co don't clearly say in ROTJ if Luke returned or did more Jedi stuff with Yoda at any other times).
    I'd add that I don't think Vader or the Empire took the Hutts or any other underworld network as a serious threat. Id think with over a 1000 known systems in the Star Wars galaxy, Palpintine or Darth Vader would get uptight over ever cartel, smuggling ring or kingpin.

    What the REAL question is why Lando wears Han Solo's A New Hope outfit in the end of TESB. Were there no Men's Wearhouses or malls in the rebel cruiser? Lol....
     
  17. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Posts:
    1,508
    Likes Received:
    2,530
    Trophy Points:
    11,187
    Credits:
    5,481
    Ratings:
    +4,664 / 62 / -26
    Agree with that.
    In fact, it does raise the question, why were Luke and co so confident Han wasn't going to be a dead man by the time Lando and Chewie got there too...?

    My take on the end of TESB has always been that we leave Vader with a lot to think about. I mean, he's confronted his son and found he actually had an emotional connection with him he didn't anticipate. He probably doesn't know what to do about Luke - probably best to just go back to taking direction from Palpatine, who seems to have it all planned out.
    That coupled with the fact that he has just used Luke's friends as bait, and it didn't really go well for Vader. Is Vader going to expect Luke to fall for the exact same trap so soon?
     
Loading...

Share This Page