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Rewatching The Phantom Menace after 10+ years

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Skaro, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. JV-24601

    JV-24601 Rebel Official

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    What with the movies being on TV again in the past few months, I can't help but realize that TPM is the most competent film of the Prequels. Not equating it with good, but Lucas does have some decent cinematography and a couple genuinely nice shots. The movie really breaks down in the second act, when it just turns into a formless morass of exposition. I know people criticize the three-act film structure, but I think the film could have actually benefited from trying to follow it more closely.
     
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  2. Ohbe-One Icanbe.

    Ohbe-One Icanbe. Rebelscum

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    HI!
    I'm about to hijack this mofo, since I'm still 15+ posts away from being able to introduce myself properly and explain why I've crashed your party.
    Apologies. Then again, you're probably not even reading this so, whutevs.

    Yesh, I did that, felt really awkward about it too, so instead of bitching about it for another 10 years, I re-cut the prequels to be, simply put: less shitty.
    Turns out I was on to something, the soundwork is still in cleanup, but the movies are watchable and cringe free (for me, but I've seen some blast in my time).

    I thought a few of you would at least be curious, some even enthusiastic, but I can't seem to convince you of the nature of my presence here.
    These were mine, for me and maybe a friend or two, they were not for you, you don't deserve them, I don't know you that well.
    I've put far too much work in wanting to erase the shame that the Prequels bring to the table to have it be shrugged as a troll or another shitty prequel mashup.

    No, friend, I went all out and it's still a work in progress, I stumbled in to the Cantina to share what I found, and to possibly make a friend or two.
    Maybe even have a discussion about the finer points, get feedback, make it perfect.
    So far, it seems, no one gives a damn, and I don't blame you, the prequels suck ewok-nuts, they are bad, bad movies.

    Everyone seems to be able to agree that they aren't great, some can even agree on why. I don't have to speculate -
    The biggest problem with the prequel trilogy is the lack of depth in narrative.

    This takes many forms throughout the trilogy, mostly it manifests as over explaining disposition,
    obvious statements in obvious situations that only eat time and momentum from the movie.
    The cast ends up struggling with hammy lines that really can't be made in to any kind of performance since they are completely detached from the narrative and serve only as a pickup for the "slow-ones" in the audience (kids, but kids are only as dumb as you let them be).

    That brings me to the next big issue, the way the prequels undermine the viewers intelligence, by constantly tugging at their sleeve and dragging them away from the story at hand to take a short peek at "what was going on in the other place, 'member ?"
    They are broken movies, put together with a calculator and a stopwatch,
    with union demands and studio pressure thwarting whatever was left of the "vision" that Lucas had.

    Which brings me to point three.
    Lucas.
    While then man is brilliant in striking up lore and is no doubt a visionary, he's not too savvy when it comes to making actual drama transpire on screen.
    Go back and watch A New Hope, it struggles with the same lack of depth, same detachment from story and was, as far as I've heard, "saved" by Lucas's wife, who cut a steaming pile of nonsense in to an actual movie, a movie that had people losing their blast for since they'd never seen anything like it.

    For valid reasons, that stand to this day as the testament that is the Empire Strikes Back, the producers opted to hire Irwin Kershner, an actual director,
    savvy in the art of drama, to make sure that the post-production hell that Lucas dragged everyone in to with the first would not repeat itself.

    So, when you hand the man the reigns back, he will pickup where he left off, this is the discussion between Lucas's vision and what the fans want.
    Lucas doesn't want a heavy handed sci-fi-greek-tragedy, he wants ewoks, he barely understands Anakin and his plight or why Obi-Wan would fail -
    OR - he is too damn close to the subject-matter and therefore can not make it right.

    This I take from the way I handled the cuts. There's a lot I would do differently, still, and if I had had the actual audio separate from the score, I could have worked some real magic. But, that's not the point here- the point being, to make the prequel trilogy "right" , in my books at least, I had to yield to the rules and narrative set by the parts of the movie that kept us watching *pod-racing Frelling RULES*, not to go Tarantino on it, but to fill in the blanks and smooth the edges already there.
    Make the movies we went to see, as we thought we would see them, I guess.

    This simple guideline steered me to re-edit the movies as follows:

    Do or do not, there is no try -
    if it doesn't take the story forward and does not bring anything interesting to the table, it is eating at the momentum.

    That was laame -
    no excuses for bad editing in fights, just none.

    I was watching that -
    one fight at a time, one sequence at a time, one story arch at a time.

    All in it's rightful place -
    just because the "test survey" gave great results when you put an explosion at 2h and 30 min, does not mean there should be an explosion at 2h 30min, you want to blow blast up when the stage is set.

    No farting at the pod-races -
    if the comic relief is there to simply pander to "the kids" or to cut away at the tension that barely is getting built, away with it.

    No, just, no -
    Some stuff in the prequels you can simply not work with,
    it had no place but to play disposition, and it doesn't belong anywhere since it's obviously a scene shot years after to tie up bonus material or some other nonsensical junk. Away with you.

    In short, just because it's Star Wars does not exclude it from basic rules of cinema.
    I'm not sure if anyone will see what I see, but I can say that the prequels, in this form, wipe the Frelling floor with the "new" stuff.
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B37jrYBE21mwWmtiakVoYVV4eXc

    Now, that being said, I feel very unwelcome here, and am starting to think I should have gone to a less "exclusive" fan-forum.
     
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  3. Pobody's Nerfect

    Pobody's Nerfect Force Sensitive

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    Not trying to tell you how to get your Cantina on, but maybe if you didn't keep reminding us that we don't deserve you or the fanfic you've built...

    Just sayin'.
     
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  4. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Commander

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    Sounds familiar... films are subjective. It is foolish to try to change one's opinion in terms of film and art. All these youtubers and click bait i avoid them and when i do watch I laugh they can't change my mind if I like or hate the prequels or TFA, I like them both btw. Youtubers are Knights of Mike Zero... so beware... we must be cautious.

    I like the way the Cantina is built. If you are here to cause dismay, you'll be gone before you can cause unnecessary damage.
     
    #64 Rogues1138, Sep 3, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
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  5. Finn_McCool

    Finn_McCool Force Sensitive

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    Yeah I like TPM better than the other two PT movies. Meybe because of Maul. Yes there are cringe worthy moments, and I'm not a big fan of little Ani. That poor kid that played him got so much grief, it wasn't his fault the movie was poorly directed. He wasn't a bad actor, especially for a kid. Anyways, where was I, ohh yes, uhm TPM was good looking back. When I first saw it I was disappointed, but now it's better.
     
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  6. Ohbe-One Icanbe.

    Ohbe-One Icanbe. Rebelscum

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    Hi, just to get my 30 posts I will elaborate once more, I have, in my possession, the uncringy prequel trilogy.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2017 ---
    Look, I'm not trying to put you down, but I came here for a bit of perspective and so far most of you'ze only been all talk, "the movies should be this and that", well, within that mystery link you will find most of those issues fixed :D
    You "don't deserve them" because they are a personal hobby project of mine, and I feel rather exposed showing my craft to people who read canon like the bible.
    No, I don't deserve to rummage through your diary, either.

    I did not come here to blast "my movies" at you, I wanted to see if anyone else felt the rush of watching the prequels and not being bummed out about it.
    If you're afraid to click the link, or won't on principle, I won't be mad, I won't care in my ignorance to be honest.

    The only way I'll know if someone has watched them and what they think of them is if someone tells me, other than that, they're just floating out there.

    If they were "my version" of the movies I wouldn't be here sharing, no, I thinks these might be what Lucas was aiming for before he ran out of time and patience, two traits I have an abundance of.
    I'm fairly confident you won't notice most of the changes unless you remember the prequels by heart.
    It's more about the general feel of things than radical changes in narrative and style.


    The MAIN reason for me sharing them, still, I want your perspective.
    The sound work is the only remaining hurdle to smooth out, but there's no point in doing it before "final cut"..

    some patch notes:
    Anakin is not a whiny little girl-man, Obi is not a fumbling uncle-guy, Padme does truly love Ani.
    Maul vs Obi Uncut, Windu vs Sidious with vigor, Obi vs Anakin as one sequence uninterrupted .. sigh ..
    I guess all I can say is, you're missing out. :)
     
    #66 Ohbe-One Icanbe., Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
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  7. Ohbe-One Icanbe.

    Ohbe-One Icanbe. Rebelscum

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    It was great, until the character was named :( not everything has to tie in with the og t
     
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  8. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Still enjoy Palpy's debut.
     
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