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SPECULATION REY'S / KYLO REN'S TRAINING IN TLJ

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by NinjaRen, Mar 24, 2017.

?

Will we see some dark side training in TLJ?

  1. YES

    30 vote(s)
    75.0%
  2. NO

    10 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    The next installment of the sequel trilogy will heavily focus on Rey’s training by Jedi Master Luke Skywalker.

    We will probably revisit some old teaching techniques of previous mentors:

    giphy.gif 4965214-9221512264-saber.gif

    And of course some teachings invented by Luke himself.
    All this will most likely be supported by the Jedi lore which Rian Johnson is gonna to introduce us to.


    But there is also another force user who is about to get his training finished. Kylo Ren.

    We have never seen dark side training on the big screen. Ren’s training would be a great possibility to introduce the casual viewer and the hardcore fan to the secrets of dark side training. We could learn more about several dark orders of the force and their lore.

    tumblr_static_tumblr_static_filename_640.jpg

    Furthermore this would be the perfect way to show off Snoke’s true powers.


    Kylo Ren’s training could be used to create some parallelism between the concept of the light side and the dark side training. It could also demonstrate the major differences between the usage of the dark side of the force and the light side.
    Just imagine a montage of cutting from Rey’s training to Ren’s, back to Rey’s training and so on.


    On the other hand I think we won’t get much of Kylo Ren’s training. The movie will lay its focus on Rey’s training with Luke.

    What do you think what this training will look like? Do you think we will witness some dark side training too?
     
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  2. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    i definitely think you're on to something! going back and forth between Kylo and Rey being trained would be pretty cool.

    personally, i feel like Ben may be a more important character moving forwards than Rey. i mean sure, she'll be the hero, but i reckon Ben is going to have more drama attached to his character arc. to leave out his training sequences with Snoke seems like a missed opportunity, but i guess we'll see!
     
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    No idea what the dark side training will be like, but just wanted to say that this is one of the things I'm most looking forward to. I'd love to see a mix of darkside training, artifacts and lore and hope they don't gloss over this but in fact double-down and make it integral to the plot.
     
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  4. Moral Hazard

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    tumblr_o5nip9gY2g1qkdo8ho1_500.gif
     
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  5. GotTheSilver

    GotTheSilver Rebel General

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    Just like they did with Rocky Balboa and Ivan Drago's training in Rocky 4!!! :p

    Seriously though, I really would prefer to see the dark side training. I really don't want them to spend much time on Rey's training. That would be too much of a rehash of ESB in the middle chapter of this trilogy. I hope the focus is much more on Kylo Ren than Rey. It would make things much more interesting for me.

    Also, this could play into what JJ Abrams and others have said from the beginning about the sequel trilogy - showing that two sides both believe they are doing the right thing. Let's see that through Kylo's training. What is he being taught about the way the galaxy should be? Would make the dark side "villain" a more three dimensional character.
     
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  6. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Me too. Obviously I want Kylo Ren to be in the main spotlight of the ST. He's such an interesting character with a lot of potential. Unfortunately Star Wars is more about the heroes and their journey to completion.

    I agree. Snoke would also benefit from Ren's training. At least in terms of his character development.
     
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  7. Luke's beard

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  8. markdeez

    markdeez Rebel Commander

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    I'm really hoping for an intercut Rocky IV-esque montage complete with sweeping John Williams score

    The Dark Side..... And The Light.

    It'd also be nice to see WHAT abilities Snoke actually possesses, if any. Is he a fragile being or is he someone we really need to worry about?

    Also, I know this is right out of a video game, but if Luke Skywalker brings down a Star Destroyer with The Force a la The Force Unleashed, I'd lose my mind. I think we need to see the potential that Anakin could've/should've had on the light side. We see Yoda lift that X-Wing effortlessly in Empire. I want Luke to accomplish a feat that will be remembered for generations to come.

    Also, if he were to get physical and beat up on some of those Knights of Ren, that'd be nice too. I suspect Rey will do a lot of the heavy lifting, though. But still, we NEED a Luke moment. We got plenty of great Han/Chewie moments. Now we need a Luke moment. One worthy of recognition in the archives of The Jedi Order :)
     
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  9. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Yes, they could show him as a merciless teacher or something like that.

    I don't think Luke will bring down a Star Destroyer but maybe someone brings down a smaller ship. Like in this concept art of TFA:
    unspecified.jpg

    Don't worry we will get more than one awesome Luke moment. ;)
     
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  10. Daft_Fader

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    Kylo's meant to have been with Snoke for some time prior to TFA so I wouldn't really expect to see some mirrored training scenes against Rey.

    What would work well would be for us to see Snoke "complete his training" by a reinforcement of whatever method he used to turn Ben against his parents in the first place and which has now culminated in Han's death. Kylo should be stronger through this action but we know from the end of TFA that he actually isn't... yet.

    I'd like to see a dark side version almost of the Dagobah cave - Snoke sends Kylo into an area strong with the light side and he is subject to happy visions of his childhood with Han and Leia, making him feel even more conflicted and self doubting. However we then see that Snoke begins to corrupt these visions / memories with whatever bad incident(s) (real or maybe just concocted by him) which reignites the anger in Kylo and we see his compassion being fully extinguished.

    This becomes the completion of his training Snoke meant and would also give us thus far missing background on how Snoke turned Ben to the dark side...
     
    #10 Daft_Fader, Mar 27, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  11. FN-3263827

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    great discussion all! : D

    i actually voted "no" but only because i fear that Snoke's method of "training" will be horrific and i don't know if i can stand to see that (and therefore don't want to).

    i'm okay with finding Ren a changed man at the outset of TLJ: possibly more controlled but angrier and in more pain than ever: a real powder keg just waiting for the right ignition.

    i think he's going to implode. i'm okay with skipping over explicit scenes of the torture (mental, physical, emotional) that will push him there.
     
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  12. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    It would be cool to see Dark side training so the film can really be different from TESB. Maybe if the cut between Luke and Rey training and Kylo and Snoke.
     
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  13. Maximus

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    it all depends upon the path they plan on taking with Ben.

    For a larger percentage of the audience to get behind some form of redemption... they may need to see what the dark side truly is, and what Ben has and is going through.

    GL and Spielberg never shied away from disturbing scenes:-
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    i'm even gonna hide this one..
    [​IMG]

    i can't speak for everyone else, but i want the ugly truth. If Kylo has been made to suffer to get to where he is... then i feel that i need to share that experience with him.
     
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  14. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    But if people have to watch how Kylo gets mistreated by Snoke, then maybe they will feel pity for him (even the Ren haters). His pain would be a good foundation for his redemption.

    This.

    Me too. I want to understand Kylo Ren's character completely. So, it's necessary to witness Ren's (cruel) training.
     
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  15. FN-3263827

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    @Maximus, @NinjaRen: i totally don't disagree with either of you.
    it may be necessary. but i still don't want to see it.
    TFA was already painful enough for me ~ hahahaha

    there's horror and there's horror. some crispy bodies and melting faces don't bother me at all.
    watching someone suffer emotionally (more than the physical stuff), is hard for me.
    reading Foster's book, I found the squicky cloying way Snoke talked to Ren--and later threatened him--deeply deeply disturbing.
    i am likewise struggling with the nastiness leveled at Hux and the other children in A:EE (even though most of it was implied and not explicit).

    personally i feel like i don't need to see torture to understand it at this point. but i concede that perhaps others do.
     
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  16. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    We need something similar to the Rocky vs Ivan Drago training montages in Rocky IV!
     
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  17. Maximus

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    i get what your saying, and i'm not a million miles away from being in that camp.

    I care for the character, and i want to see Ben come out the other side. I know that you feel the same, but many... many don't see that.

    I remember watching 'murder in the first' with kevin bacon... i've not cried during many films (ok.. yes of course green mile and bambi), but that one did me in. The physical torture was awful, but the mental side of it was just plain gut wrenching.

    Some ppl will need a reason to accept him back to the light, and likewise.. if he was to remain evil, i would need a reason to accept that. Either way.. i think we will be heading down that rabbit hole to see what Snoke has done to Ben/Kylo.
     
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  18. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    I personally liked seeing Kylo in pain because it made him feel like a real human being. So, I want more of that...

    Snoke could pretty much torture Kylo to make him powerful with the dark side. But eventually Ren's training will be Snoke's undoing. Kylo will hate Snoke after he has witnessed his training methods.
     
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    if it will help people to understand what this kid has gone through and buy some sympathy then i guess it's worth it.
    but man, i feel like i've seen him suffer pretty hard already ~ hahahaha

    he's going to keep suffering. i don't see any avoiding that, certainly.
    i think it might be a turning point if he feels like Snoke is going to turn this "training" on someone else.
    he seems somewhat willing to suffer for this grandiose mission he has in his head, but he might be (especially after killing his father) averse to seeing others suffer for it now.
     
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    There's still something in the back of my mind that's making me think that we aren't going to be seeing present-Rey training but more in flashbacks or like how RO started, with a training montage and then jump ahead to her "fully" trained by Luke. Maybe the same goes for Kylo...I just think Disney has shown they have no hesitation to use flashbacks/forwards in telling their new stories.
     
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