OFFICIAL NEWS SDCC 2015: Lucasfilm's Panel Discussion Thread

We don't know that Mark is 64 and has stated he is not in condition to fight anymore and that his final character moment involved him throwing the weapon away and refusing to use it?

We absolutely know all of that and that makes a Maul duel with a laser sword unlikely. Stop trying to make my character Batman. He's a natural, organic character he's NOT Nietzsche with Peter Pan syndrome. If you want a vengeful, selfish, eternally powerful, arrogant character that always wins by punching people in the face, go see Batman vs. Superman.

 

There's no reason what-so-ever to think Luke won't use his Lightsaber. We're talking about Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker, and we have every reason to expect a legitimate duel from him. It may be his last, or it may be one of several. But it will happen, and his powers, as well as his ability with a blade, will show.

That being said, it's still possible that Luke will do nothing what-so-ever, and be a pacifist who does nothing but train. It's very unlikely, and people would probably not like it at first, but it's possible.

Let's not make rules out of exceptions, or think that nothing changes or evolves in 30 years. And let's not be rude

Now, is there any actual evidence or rumor either way for Luke in VII? Or even beyond? Because I was under the impression that Luke's role was secret, amd had mainly only a flashback rumor and am ending rumor.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 16, 2015 ---

I think it's funny that nobody seems to have brought up the possibility that both sides are correct, and that Luke may start on one side (Force, Lightsaber, or Oracle) and end up on the other. He may start as pacifist oracle in hiding, as could potentially be inferred from the end of Jedi and the Academy/flashback rumor, and later decide that some things must be fought for. Who knows?

 

What I meant is we don't know if Luke will get to participate in a "Darth Maul type duel", it's perfectly plausible. Him throwing the weapon away was an indication that he was not willing to use it to kill his father, why would you think this means he is never again going to use a lightsaber? We already have pointed out why Mark's age is not relevant.
I'm not sure why anything I said means I'm trying to turn Luke into Batman or Nietzche with Peter Pan syndrome.

 

We're saying if he has any battle at all with his sword, he'll soon lift it and join OB1, with a minimum of fighting.

There is more power in winning your cause without the sword than with it. That is the entire point of Star Wars.

The failure of Vader was he never learned that lesson and Luke only just learns it in the nick of time. Even Yoda fails, it was wrong of him to confront the Emperor with an attack. Wrong of the Jedi to support a war when they did not understand who had ordered the clones. They use it as a convenience, and they use it for an attack the blunders into the plans of the Sith.

That's the entire riddle of Luke, don't you see? He goes into the cave, Yoda says he won't need his weapon, he takes it anyway and fails. Later when he can use his weapon in fear and anger, he refuses, thus redeeming himself and his father.

You think with all those lessons Luke is going to fire up his sword and start swinging it at a young kid who can't even make a real light saber yet?

I think you have every indication Luke isn't going to whip out his sword, wave it around in Episode VII. Mark says he does not want to do it, Mark says he can't do it, the MSW treatment says he doesn't do it and his character arc suggests he would never do that ever again.

It's all there, you just stubbornly refuse to see it, and then hold onto a lottery's chance. It's cool that's what you want it, but don't kid yourself all evidence points to you NOT getting it.

I refuse to go into the details of whether it CAN happen. Cinema can make Yoda spin around like dart. That's the problem, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should. If the prequels taught us anything, that might be the lesson.

We're arguing it SHOULDN'T happen for both artistic reasons and for logistical reasons and that makes the chances of it happening very unlikely.

Apologies I'm passionate, but this is Luke we're talking about and I don't want him turned into an Ubermencsch with Peter Pan syndrome. Go dig Deadpool for that kind of thing. This is Luke Skywalker who learned to throw away his sword, learned that sacrifice is worth more than power.

He isn't a knight with a cause anymore, he's a mentor with a new apprentice. He cannot seek out Rey's destiny, she has to do that on her own, he can only guide her away from hatred, fear and anger.

The entire concepts power and victory aren't made of the same cloth as a comic book. He doesn't wait for a Bat signal, swoop in and save the day by hurting people. Those days are over for him. He's learned a lesson Superman and Batman haven't learned in 80 years of story telling and I don't want him kicked back into a formula it took three beautiful films to break him out of.

 

I think you're interpreting it as a far more anti-war and pro-pacifist way than what it is. I don't think that's the point at all. Because all these Jedi used their lightsabers when they needed to. They didn't refuse to fight for good. Obi-Wan cut an alien's arm off in ANH, amd Yoda and Obi-Wan said nothing of using a lightsaber in ESB, just to not give in to hate. I don't think it's meant to, (thematically) go as far as you infer it to.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 16, 2015 ---

The end of Jedi, to me, and I think to most people, is the realization of Luke that the Dark Side starts with going too far, and doing the right thing for the wrong reason (or the wrong thing for the right reason). It's about using the Lightsaber only for good, and not in a way that will further evil goals, like the Emperor's. Luke said he wouldn't fight Vader, and that he would never turn to the Dark Side. He knew that refusing to fight, and kill, his father was likely the selfless sacrificial act that his father needed to witness, in order to see the Light. Luke didn't quit fighting because he thought pacifism was the way..

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2015 ---

He quit fighting because it was the right choice in that situation. It was the appropriate response to a situation in which an evil Emperor is trying to pull your strings, and force you to fight to the death. Instead of participating in that fight, he simply said "I won't fight at all."

 

No wrong, I'm interpreting the very ethic of the light side of the force, as preached by some of the greatest masters of that ethos that the films have ever presented. It's not political at all. It's spiritual.

Luke chooses to keep his soul intact rather than acquire more power. That's not pacifism. That's spiritualism.

And saved the galaxy and the soul of his ancestor in doing so. And its the choice he made against his most powerful enemy ever.

Then he sets off to the sunset like a Monk, a legend, a legacy. Only a bad writer would take that arc and devolve it back to a guy who solves his problems by cutting an inferior opponent in half with a laser sword.

I'll say it again:

I think you have every indication Luke isn't going to whip out his sword, wave it around in Episode VII. Mark says he does not want to do it, Mark says he can't do it, the MSW treatment says he doesn't do it and his character arc suggests he would never do that unless it was the most extreme circumstance and even then he wouldn't need the sword to win and if anything would sacrifice himself like Ben.

We'll get plenty of swashbuckling action, but it's not coming from Luke.

 

This article explains very well that it had nothing to do with fighting; just fighting on the Emperor's terms.

This is what I'm trying to explain:

Source: http://scifi.about.com/od/starwarsf...n-How-Luke-Skywalker-Defeated-The-Emperor.htm

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 16, 2015 ---

There are certainly aspects of your point that are true, and part of what Luke did, but as a whole, Luke becoming a pacifist is not what happened. He simply learned not to play into the Emperor's hands. To know when and hoe to use his power for good, and not to further the goals of the Emperor. He learned how to use his powers only for the Light; Something that the Prequel-Era Jedi did not realize they weren't doing. They were playing a very grey game. Luke learned how not to toe the line.

 

I totally forgot about that, great point-out! That says a lot about Luke, and where he really went after Jedi. Definitely some saber use somewhere..

 

I will be disappointed if Luke hangs up his lightsaber just for TFA, all that training etc thrown down the darkside void.

 

Will he or won't he? Philosophically, you are all making good points about whether or not Luke can, or even should, return as a "warrior" or as a "pacifist" (although I don't think this latter term is a fair description). While I tend to agree with @Snazel about what the character arc should be, I recognize that a warrior Luke is certainly plausible. However, our wants are separate and distinct from what Luke is as a plot device in this continuation of the saga. I think what is being overlooked is the obvious question: What is Luke's purpose within this new story?

I would respectfully argue that his sole purpose is to become a mentor, and pass the torch (literally) to the new young heroes, not to be a Grand Master Jedi badass. The young heroes are the ones that will be "swinging the sword" and will over the course of the ST learn when it is appropriate to do so, just as Luke did during his hero's journey.

Now this is not to say that Luke won't pick up the saber if and when it is necessary to do so, but it is far more likely to me that he will do so in a similar manner to old Obi-Wan rather than young Obi-Wan.

 

I have this vision of an epic duel between Kylo Ren and Rey and/or Finn, in which the tide turns in favor of Ren. In a moment of despair, when it looks like Ren is about to take the death swing with his cross sword saber to either of both of the youngens, a green light saber blade suddenly enters the shot, blocking the cross guard from slicing through Rey and/or Finn. Pan up: Master Skywalker has arrived to save the day. Cue very emotional Force theme...

 

I have had the thought that Luke may end up being more of a Mace Windu type. Not one to whip out his lightsaber at every opportunity, but when he does...watch out

I thought it was one of the better moments of the PT to watch Obi Wan have an epic battle with Jango Fett, and then see Mace Windu take him out almost as an afterthought.

Make Luke a little more Yoda on the philosophical side, or at least a little less Samuel L Jackson, and we have a strong, quiet leader who can kick some serious a$$ when necessary.

 

"but it is far more likely to me that he will do so in a similar manner to old Obi-Wan rather than young Obi-Wan."

Old Obi-Wan didn't hesitate to cut down someone who threatened Luke.

Sometimes a use of force (yukyuk) is appropriate given the situation. Doing so doesn't mean the individual is the type to solve EVERY problem like that.

 

A swashbuckling Luke is possible folks, nobody denies that, it's just very unlikely given all we know about Episode VII. All evidence points against it. All of it.

Also Windu was arrogant and reckless, his actions were a vital part of the problem. Luke rises far beyond Windu's arc. It's precisely the wrong disposition and comparison.

It is also absolutely not pacifism, but he no longer has a personal quest, he's already sought, found and fought his destiny. His only remaining chapter is help stage the next hero's journey.

Old OB1 Kenobi used the saber to defend and he didn't kill with it either.Young OB1 was reckless and stupid and like Yoda failed most when he was aggressive and steeped in war. The Jedi sewed the seeds of their own destruction by swashbuckling around the galaxy on some damn idealistic crusade. They went to war without even knowing where the troops for it came from. Even Yoda laments his aggressive actions and both Yoda and OB1 agree that they need to be patient and wait for the table to be reset.

That's likely where we see Luke. His aggressive feelings are purged, he is at peace. He needs now only to ensure the next generation takes on the mantle.

Some of you seem repulsed by the fact Luke is strategic, rather than tactical, smart rather than powerful and patient rather than reckless. My passion for Luke is showing here, apologies, but I'll beg some of you again to please stop turning my favorite character into an uber vigilante. Luke isn't vengeful, he lost his hand the last time he was.

Justice does not come from his sword it comes from his deep understanding and connection to the Force.

The fact remains: It was the Jedi's eagerness to kill with a sword that led to Sith victory last time. It was the Jedi's refusal to use the sword that led to Sith defeat.

That's not pacifism, that's wisdom. Learning the difference between intelligence and wisdom, between strength and power, between courage and fear, is at the heart of Luke's story and it is a journey he has already completed. His task is pass on what he has learned.

Luke wins by grace, wisdom and charity not by stabbing people with laser swords.

 

I don't really see anyone calling for Luke to be aggressive or even kill anyone. Simply that using his Lightsaber isn't against his character as there are times when it would be appropriate. The story could have him use it to stop Kylo from killing someone, deflect blaster fire, etc. It wouldn't make him a swing first ask questions later character.

 

Australian comedian Steele Sanders has a podcast about his love of Star Wars that everyone should check out. The last three episodes have been about his time at Comic Con including the panel at Hall H, camping out the night the before, and going to the other Lucas Films exhibitions. Definitely worth a listen to.

http://steelewars.com

Oh and here's his Instagram, lots of photos documenting his trip to San Diego.

https://instagram.com/steelewars/

 

Now this is something that I could get behind... after stopping Kylo Ren's deathblow, Luke force pushes him backward causing Kylo to retreat to fight another day. That would make sense to me for Luke's character arc.

As @Snazel said, this was in Luke's defense and was not an aggressive act. Also, it is not as though it was against another aggressive Force-sensitive or even Sith. But I would certainly prefer this over a wild, swashbuckling Luke...

If I could give this multiple ratings, I would give you both a medal and a Yoda.

 

"As @Snazel said, this was in Luke's defense and was not an aggressive act. Also, it is not as though it was against another aggressive Force-sensitive or even Sith. But I would certainly prefer this over a wild, swashbuckling Luke."

There seems to be this sort of idea that it has to be either one extreme or the other. I don't really see it that way, there is a middle ground.

Being in a duel doesn't mean he wanted to be or started it. Just like with Obi-Wan in ANH, sometimes others push the situation.

It doesn't make him less of a Jedi or character because he uses his Lightsaber.

I will also add that the idea that "swinging the sword" caused the Jedi to fall and "putting it down" ended the Sith is a huge over simplification. There are a number of different factors that play into things.

 

I know you want to find middle ground, but it has nothing to do with being extreme, it's a recognition of the poetry of Luke's character not insisting that Luke is a pacifist, which is a straw man's argument, not what Luke advocates contend here.

When we make statements like: the bravest thing Luke ever did was throw his saber away and refuse to use it.

That doesn't say he's a pacifist, only that this was his entire story, to learn how to redeem himself and his father with faith and charity.

The Force is about life and a philosophical approach to life, that in the end triumphs over anger, fear and hate.

Once you realize the Force represents life, then it's simply an understanding that the metaphor of passing your gifts onto other is a metaphor that extends beautifully. A 64 year old man should look to pass on what he has learned.

Like anyone in a good career path he learns to delegate tasks he's already mastered and focuses instead of spreading knowledge of his craft.

That's how life is, let along a character arc.

If Luke uses a saber, it will either:

1. Be Uber and shallow, because Luke is no longer about vengeful justice anymore, we've had that story, it happens to be one of the best ever written. It will feel a lot like the shallow duels of Episode III. And if there is a lava skateboard in this one again, I shall be very prickly about it.

OR

2. It will be short and/or end in Luke's sacrifice.

More likely:

3. Luke will pass on his gifts and be a mentor character.

Your weapons, you will not need them.
Remember your failure at the cave.