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Sequel trilogy is just a cash grab + doesn't need to exist. The story has already been told

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by VOODOO, Jul 23, 2015.

  1. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebel General

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    Ok, I understand that people are going to call me a negative troll... I can assure you that is not my intention. I saw the original SW so many times in the theatre that it's part of my DNA. I love the series and want the best for it.

    That said, the sequel trilogy and all the future spinoffs simply don't need to exist. The story of SW is the rise, fall and ultimate redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Even George Lucas was on record as saying "there is no more story to tell"

    Sure, you can always add on to the existing storyline, but should you? The story was wrapped up with Return of the Jedi. What's the point?

    The fact of the matter is that these films aren't being made for artistic reasons, they are being made for the massive amounts of money Disney and Lucasfilm are sure to make from their existence.

    I of believe that J.J. Abrams is a very talented filmmaker + I suspect his film will be superior to the disappointing prequels, but is that alone reason to add on to a series that already has had a beginning, middle and end?

    The thought of making more Star Wars films to me is the equivalent of making Casablanca part 2 or doing a sequel to " It's a Wonderful Life" there's no point with those classics. Much like the classics that the Star Wars films are those classic films told their story + there's nothing left to say.
     
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  2. CHOLOBOT

    CHOLOBOT Rebel General

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    Maybe try MySpace, or one of the OT or PT forums. I for one don't want to come here to gripe about what is to come. We mostly debate what will be MORE fantastical here. Here try this:
    "DP LIVES SUCKAS!"
    or
    "Snoke sounds boring. He should be called Darth Satan Claus".
    or
    "If Kylo is Han's cousins roommates sister in laws pizza delivery guy twice removed.....Disney is defiantly going to get all my money".
    See? Fun.
     
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  3. Jar Jar Christensen

    Jar Jar Christensen Rebel General

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    Personally I like the idea of the sequel trilogy. As a fan I couldn't be more excited. We are finally going to get new Star Wars films in the hands the talented directors.

    Yes the story could have ended at the end of ROTJ but unfortunately for fans who are like minded as you that is not the case in 2015. Yes there is tons of money to be made for Disney off of the Star Wars franchise and yes we can all agree that that is one of their motives but I just have a good feeling that they will be putting out quality Star Wars films that we all want to see while letting the directors have their creative freedom and not "Disneyfie" Star Wars.

    Just put your pessimism to the side for a second and be excited that we have a EPISODE 7 on the way. We will be seeing Star Wars: Episode 7 in FOUR MONTHS and some odd weeks from now!!!
     
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  4. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Force Attuned

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    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    Nobody forces you to see it and you can watch the OT for a million times, no problem.
     
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  6. Yoda 2

    Yoda 2 Rebel Official

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    Star Wars has always been about making money, inventing technologies, telling great stories, selling toys, expanding the universe, and...
    LUKE SKYWALKER!!!!

    GTHOOH! hahaha.
     
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  7. Lord Phanatic

    Lord Phanatic Indigenous Ruler of Hoth
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    George Lucas wrote a treatment for 3 trilogies, 9 movies. He even stated that out of all the episodes, he'd wan't to see 7-9 the most.Yes JJ and Kasdan rewrote Arndt's draft but I'm pretty sure they left the treatment intact.
     
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  8. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    To be fair, Lucas clearly felt there was more story to tell, even for some time after making Return of the Jedi; he only adopted the "this is it" stance relatively recently sometime after the prequels were done.

    For reference:

    "The newly-formed Star Wars Corps is working on producing Star Wars II, and then, count them, 10 other planned sequels."
    Time magazine article, 1978

    "The first script was one of six original stories I had written in the form of two trilogies. After the success of Star Wars, I added another trilogy. So now there are nine stories. The original two trilogies were conceived of as six films of which the first film was number four."
    George Lucas, 1979

    "There are essentially nine films in a series of three trilogies. The first trilogy is about the young Ben Kenobi and the early life of Luke's father when Luke was a little boy. This trilogy takes place some twenty years before the second trilogy which includes Star Wars and Empire. About a year or two passes between each story of the trilogy and about twenty years pass between the trilogies. The entire saga spans about fifty-five years... I won't say who survives and who doesn't, but if we are ever able to link together all three, you'd find the story progresses in a very logical fashion."
    George Lucas, 1979

    "Star Wars is really three trilogies, nine films... it won't be finished for probably another 20 years."
    George Lucas, 1980

    "The last three episodes involve the rebuilding of the Republic. Only two of the main characters will appear in all nine films, and they are the robots, Artoo-Detoo and Threepio. In effect, the story will be told through their eyes."
    George Lucas, 1980

    "It deals with the character that survives Star Wars III [Episode VI] and his adventures."
    George Lucas, 1980

    "Luke would now be a 60-something mentor figure like Kenobi. Hamill and the others will get first crack at the roles – if they look old enough.”
    George Lucas, 1983

    "[Episodes VII, VIII and IX deal with] the rebuilding of the Republic [and] the necessity for moral choices and the wisdom needed to distinguish right from wrong. If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self-realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems. In Star Wars there is a very clear line drawn between good and evil. Eventually you have to face the fact that good and evil aren’t that clear cut, and the real issue is trying to understand the difference. The sequel is about Jedi Knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned."
    George Lucas, 1983

    Hopefully, I will someday be doing the next three Star Wars, but I'm not sure when. The next three would take place 20 or 30 years before the three films they're celebrating here today. I'll do the first trilogy first. There are nine [films] floating around there somewhere. I'll guarantee that the first three are pretty much organised in my head, but the other three are kind of out there somewhere.
    George Lucas, 1988

    "You know, Star Wars was a success, but I didn't have any idea then what was going on. I didn't know whether I was even going to be able to make the next two films. I had taken two-thirds of the original script and thrown it away. In my mind, I was saying, 'Gee, if this really is a big hit, then I can make a movie out of all the early material that I developed.' Empire and Jedi were what that first film was supposed to be. And after that, I can tell another story about what happens to Luke after this trilogy ends. All the prequel stories exist: where Darth Vader came from, the whole story about Darth and Ben Kenobi, and it all takes place before Luke was born. The other one - what happens to Luke afterwards - is much more ethereal. I have a tiny notebook full of notes on that. If I'm really ambitious, I could proceed to figure out what would have happened to Luke."
    George Lucas, circa 1990 (?)

    "Everyone said, 'Well, are you going to do sequels to the first three?' But that was an afterthought; I don't have scripts on those stories. The only notion on that was, wouldn't it be fun to get all the actors to come back when they're 60 or 70 years old and make three more about them as old people. That's how far that has gone, but the first six will definitely get finished."
    George Lucas, 1997

    "EPISODE 1: Was to focus on the origins of the Jedi Knights and how they are initiated and trained
    EPISODE 2: Introduction and development of Obi-Wan Kenobi
    EPISODE 3: Introduction and life of Vader
    EPISODE 4: There were seven different drafts of the film. At one point, they pursued buying the rights to Hidden Fortress because of the strong similarities. At one point, Luke was a female, Han was Luke's brother, Luke's father was the one in prison (interesting point for some debates) and the film featured 40 Wookiees
    EPISODE 5: Once written, the screenplay of Empire is almost exactly what is seen on screen. The only cut scenes were those involving wampas in the rebel base (cut because of time and unsolved technical glitches) and about two minutes of Luke/Yoda Jedi training with no real dialog.
    EPISODE 6: Leia was to be elected "Queen of her people" leaving her isolated. Han was to die. Luke confronted Vader and went on with his life alone. Leia was not to be Luke's sister.
    EPISODE 7: Third trilogy was to focus on Luke's life as a Jedi, with very few details planned out.
    EPISODE 8: Luke's sister (not Leia) appears from another part of the galaxy.
    EPISODE 9: First appearance of the Emperor."
    Gary Kurtz, speaking in 1999 about plans for the saga 'dating from the 1970s'

    "You know, when I first did this, it was four trilogies. 12 movies! And out on the desert, any time between setups... lots of free time. And George was talking about this whole thing. I said, 'Why are you starting with IV, V and VI? It's crazy.' [Imitating Lucas grumble,] 'It's the most commercial section of the movie.' He said the first trilogy's darker, more serious. And the impression I got, he said, 'Um, how'd you like to be in Episode IX?' This is 1976. 'When is that going to be?' '2011.' I defy anyone to add 36 years to their lives and not be stunned. Even an eight year old is like, 'No, I'll never be 47.' So I did the math and figured out how old I'd be. I said, 'Well, what do you want me to do?' He said, 'You'll just be like a cameo. You'll be like Obi-Wan handing the lightsaber down to the next new hope."
    Mark Hamill, 2004

    “It was originally a 12-part saga. The three most exciting stories were 7, 8 and 9. They had propulsive action, really interesting new worlds, new characters. I remember thinking, ‘I want to see these three movies.’”
    Dave Pollock (author of Skywalking: The Life and Times of George Lucas), discussing in 2012 the story treatments he allegedly was allowed to read while researching his book, but had signed non-disclosure agreements on their contents


    You know, I agree with what you are saying on some levels. I was initially reluctant to embrace this. ROTJ is such a nice, neat ending - everything is resolved, the Ewoks have a party and the galaxy is free. What's left to tell?
    But at the end of the day, they are free to go anywhere they want with this. And you've got nothing to lose - just go along for the ride. If it's good, it's good. If it's bad - well, it's bad. Who cares?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 23, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 23, 2015 ---
    It seems like Arndt never even turned in a finished draft:

    ... With Abrams now part of the development team and the already tight summer 2015 release date looming ever closer, Michael Arndt was having difficulty finishing a script within the necessary time frame. “There was a ton of ideas and outlines, a lot of cards on the wall, a lot of writing on whiteboards,” Abrams said, but no screenplay. With pre-production chores already well under way in London, where much of the film would be shot at Pinewood Studios, Abrams and Kasdan took over the screenwriting process, starting more or less from scratch. “We said, Blank page. Page one. What do we desperately want to see?” Abrams told me.
    Vanity Fair, June 2015
     
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  9. The Nerf Herder!

    The Nerf Herder! Rebel General

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    They were going to make a sequel trilogy before the prequel trilogy but Harrison Ford didn't want to do any more films so they decided to stop at ROTJ.
     
  10. Jar Jar Darklighter

    Jar Jar Darklighter Clone Trooper

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    Yes, the PT and OT did tell the story of Anakin Skywalker and that part of the saga may be complete, but that doesn't mean there aren't more stories to tell. George Lucas created such an interesting and unique universe that is expansive and has plenty of room to tell more stories.

    Conversely, I'm aware that George has said that there is "no more story to tell" after ROTJ. But according to a Time magazine article from back in 1978, he originally had plans for up to 12 Star Wars films.

    It's also worth noting that back in the 80's George had asked Mark Hamil about coming back in 30 years to play an Obi Wan-type character who hands Excalibur down to the next generation.
    (http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-hamill-star-wars-episode-7-80s-interview-2014-12)

    George Lucas was even working on a draft of Episode VII leading up to Disney's purchase of Lucasfilm.

    Also, you can't really compare Cassablanca or It's A Wonderful Life to Star Wars in that regard. Those movies were intended to be stand alone films without sequels. Star Wars was intended to be a saga which would span several films. Sequels make much more sense for Star Wars than Cassablanca.

    To be fair, I do understand your hesitation, but I definitely think there are more stories worth telling in the Star Wars universe, and I couldn't be more excited for them.
     
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  11. Ralok-one

    Ralok-one Rebel Official

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    nothing needs to exist, nobodyn eeds to create anything, stories dont need to be told.
     
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  12. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    We will see if the Sequels can tell "a" Story....Cash grabbing movies don´t...Or break down fast....
     
  13. FeniX-Minerva

    FeniX-Minerva Rebelscum

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    If TFA were a cash-grab, they're sure putting alot of effort on not making it look like one. It's as if they actually cared for their product...
     
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  14. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    Let´s say the Sequels will come out as a trashy cash-grabing pile of poodoo. Was there any movie like this, giving people hope and fun like this in the past?

    The trailers were solid....right?

    In retro-perspectiv the Prequels did this too...But were they really that solid, having now the possibility to compare them?
     
  15. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    I don't exactly agree with you, but I do see your point as valid, and it worries me the mentality some people sometimes have here of "say what we like or we bombard you with negative ratings."

    For my mind, I definitely see the cash-grab part of it. I see it for what it is, but at the same time I'm optimistic about it, because cash-grab or not, the ST also has the potential to be great and in some way inherently connected to the OT and PT in a manner that makes sense and, more importantly, feels right.

    As to what @Get In Gear mentions, Lucas has before expressed opinions as to further episodes, particularly about the Republic (which given the heavy-handed politics dosage of the PT, this would make sense to include in the story), however... in all honesty confusion can be easily understandable, as I believe Lucas himself has seemingly changed his mind multiple times over the years as to whether he intended to do 9 films or not. If I recall, Lucas himself even did a write-up outline for the ST, which he said Disney wasn't exactly following (take that how you will).


    Now, all that (and what others) said, what really worries me are the other future releases. The rumor of a film every year for the next foreseeable decade or two does certainly worry me, as I start to imagine the quality of said releases not being up to snuff and the threat of overexposure (if that's even possible with Star Wars).


    Agreed. In my mind, I took the comparison and instead changed it to something else that was a popular movie (and book) trilogy -- the Lord of the Rings. I can see his point in that it's like they took the masterpiece Tolkien made, which was made to completion for all intents and purposes (being based off the works of a deceased author, as they are), and then decided to make a new trilogy about Melkor/Morgoth returning or something like that.

    I know the comparison is not the best, but in that view I can at least understand the mindset of the ST being unnecessary, and even divorced from the "true story" if we take the OT to be like to Lucas' grand novel series.

    I'm with you though. I'm optimistic and basically giddy over the future of the ST at least.
     
    #15 John Crichton, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
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  16. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    The story of Star Wars was fine as it was. ESB and RotJ didn't "need" to be made. The trilogy continued on because the original made lots of money, so there was demand for more.

    The OT completed the story of Luke Skywalker and was a complete story in itself. The PT didn't need to be made, but the OT made a lot of money and there was demand for additional stories.

    The PT turned the saga into the story of Anakin Skywalkers's fall and redemption, altering our understanding of the OT in the process.

    Now here we are again. The saga was at rest and represented a complete story, but there is demand for more. So, another trilogy will be made that will fundamentally change the story of the complete saga. Is it necessary? No. Could the story have stood without it? Of course. But after the new trilogy is made that story will change and become a new saga-length story of 9 films in length.

    And 15-20 years from now, someone will appear on a forum like this and be upset about the new trilogy of episodes 10-13 being made because episodes 1-9 told a complete story and new movies will change that. They will say episodes 10-13 are complete cash grabs and will ruin our understanding of the existing saga and ruin people's memories of what came before.

    The saga is not static. It grows and evolves with each movie. Each film alters our perceptions of the previous films. None of these films need to be made. They are made because people like and consume them. We demand, they supply. And until people stop demanding, the saga will continue to be a dynamic one that shifts and turns in our understanding of it until we are gone or the movies stop making money. If anyone is unwilling to accept that the saga changes over time, all one needs to do is watch only the films they care for and pretend the rest don't exist.
     
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  17. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    The Iiliad was a shameless cash grab we already had the Odessey.
     
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  18. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder Rebel General

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    To be fair, George Lucas is on the record having said just about both sides of everything.
     
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  19. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebel General

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    Just my opinion, but I think the Star Wars story has already been told. The sequels are more of a corporate exercise than the continuation of a legendary story
     
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  20. Ralok-one

    Ralok-one Rebel Official

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    yeah, and your opinion is dumb and sad... based on a mountain of lies.

    It being an "opinion" isnt a magical protective shield that makes it invulnerable to all criticism.

    (and if that is so, its my opinion that your opinion is a pile of dog poop)
     
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