Should Lightsabers be exclusive to Jedi/Sith?

I agree with what @Mike was the first to say in this thread - a lightsaber would make a horrible weapon against a gun unless you had the force powers to deflect lasers.

I also think you're Professor can hold onto his respect for the movies, because a lightsaber would not make a great utility item. You wouldn't want one around the house. If you tried to use it to cut through your meat, you would end up cutting through the plate and the table. There really aren't many practical uses for a lightsaber. In the hands of a non-force-sensitive person, its functionality would be similar to a chainsaw - and in a universe full of droids, jobs requiring chainsaws would probably not be done by humans anyway.

I can see a plasma blade being an important tool in manufacturing or construction - but again, those jobs would likely be done by robots.

 

Shouldn't this be in the general discussion forums?

 

Here is a concept for ya, lol. An original stormtrooper idea by Ralph McQuarrie. The lightsaber itself is just an instrument in my mind. I won't be surprised if TFA troopers carry a standard issue sabers with riot shields to push the "medieval/fantasy" envelope they already hint at with the cross guard saber.

The notion of the Jedi being exceptional individuals who can wield the force never appealed to me. Luke's journey was so interesting because it made you feel like you could have that magical power too if you worked hard enough.

Same goes for a lightsaber. It's a weapon anyone could use.

 

They'd work great for slicing cheese...

 

all have great points I will just add mine that fall into what others are saying and pose a few questions for others out there that know more than myself:
opinion:
any one can use them, but only through the force can they be constructed.
the feeling in the galaxy is one of those are cool looking but not practical as weaponry, and coolness doesn't keep you alive.
as a tool it seems there are better constructed devices specifically designed for their particular uses.
getting your hands on one and the using as a tool seems silly.
I wouldn't find an old katana and then use it to cut down tree limbs (yes I would) or unscrew metal plates and what not).
Our view of them is different from in world of the movies (to us they are fantastic imaginary objects, to them they are just an ancient weapon used by a group of odd people that have more than once destroyed everything depending on point of view)

Question:
outside of movies I don't know as much, how many non-force wielders have there been.
in movies 2.......
one assisting a jedi so there can be excuses there maybe the force was guiding blah blah
and one an odd cyborg being trained by former jedi now sith.

 

I am firmly in the camp that ONLY Jedi and/or Sith should carry and use Lightsabers. ObiWan said in a New Hope that it is was the weapon of a jedi knight, and young Anakin spotted QuiGon's lightsaber and knew he was a Jedi because only jedi's carried them. It sets them apart from everyone else. There are other weapons to combat a light saber, and maybe this should be explored some more and a new weapon created. The constructing of the personal lightsaber takes great control of the Force and advanced skills. This is why Vader, when examining Luke's new green saber, stated, " I see you have constructed a new lightsaber. Indeed you ARE powerful, as the emperor has foreseen." If it wasn't such a big deal to construct one requiring skills, why would Vader be so impressed?

Lastly, the time when Han used the lightsaber to cut open the tauntaun stands out. I think Han is force sensitive, he just doesn't realize it. He thinks its just dumb luck. That's why old OB1 smiled when Han said," there's no all powerful force controlling my destiny", as he would go on to help the Rebellion, fall in love with Vader's daughter, marry her, and "maybe" have Jedi children.

 

I'm surprised that Pre Vizsla of the Deathwatch hasn't been mention yet considering he's canon from the Clone Wars (forgive me if I missed it). Here is a great example of a warrior with great martial prowess wielding a saber, not to mention one of the coolest.

So, while Jedi/Sith are the prime candidates for weilding lightsabeers, there is precedent for others such as Pre Vizsla and Grevious, who both have superior combat skills, to successfully use a laser sword.

EDIT: As a lot of the discussion is centered around creation of lightsabers, its worth noting that the Darksaber that Pre Vizsla weilds is an ancient Jedi weapon and was captured by the Mandalorians, being passed down through the Vizsla family.

 

I think Cassie Criar shouldalso be noted here as she Aquired her lightsaber through blackmarket means, and was able to use it somewhat effectively.

So there is an example of lightsabers existing on the Black Market...

honestly, I jsut dont think that many people would have much motivation to get a lightsaber unless they want to specifically spite the jedi or sith in some way. Otherwise a scifi sword of some other sortsthat is easier to produce and easier to handle would probably suit their purposes just fine.

 

I loved the magical feeling of Jedi Knights and their weapons in the OT. To my young imagination, they were powerful wizards who are few in number but serve justice and are beacons of light in the galaxy. They are known as "mediators" who are respected by common people everywhere. Luke is an ordinary youth who is called to action to "become" one, and that supplied the fantasy that I could do that too!

I couldn't stomach the "elitist" Jedi in the NT. That brings me to my point about the sabers. Yes, they are special and powerful weapons of the jedi and should be treated with care. However, a weapon or medichlorian count does not make the jedi. It's the faith in the force and the path to follow it.

 

Han and grevious use a lightsaber. Anyone can use one, but without the force, they couldn't do cool things like use them defensively against lasers, or deflect the laser bolts back.

 

I too felt the way the Jedi were conceived in the Prequels were very dickly. Just the way Mace Windu talked to QuiGon was offensive. "bring in this..boy then". "No, he will NOT be trained".. They spoke like very religious hypocrites who can't stand to talk to normal sinners who aren't on their level. It very much took away from the scene in Empire when Yoda was explaining the ways of the Force...."luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." That 3 minute scene between him and Luke is the apex of the mythos of being a Jedi.

 

Absolutely agree with you! I was honestly confused watching Ep. I in theaters. These were completely different Jedi from what I remembered and cherished as a kid. Lucas basically made them crusaders with unlimited political power and control over military.

 

Sidious made them that way, he was the one who held the power.

 

Another idiotic plot point - an entire order of the Jedi including the wize council with sage like powers couldn't sniff out a bit of dark side right in their midst?
Explain to me again how Yoda can go blow for blow with Palpatine in the senate chamber but can't read him through the force?
Or how Palpatine, a mortal man of 60+ years has more Forse skills than a 800yo Jedi master.

 

Interesting thread and i definitely think you have a point with the trigger ignition , that would make them even more exclusive.
Here are my two cents about the exclusiveness though....

GL as we know was a huge fan of Akira Kurosawa and was very much inspired by his samurai movies . For example he based the two droids (and the idea of letting the narrative not begin with the main heroes) of the two peasants in "The Hidden Fortress" . But more importantly he based both the Jedi and even more so the darkside very much on the samurai warriors. Obi Wan as a lone Ronin and Vader as a evil Shogun appointed by the Emperor just like in feudal Japan. I think it is also safe to assume the lightsaber is GL's sci fi version of the Katana.

The Katana was a very exclusive weapon reserved for the warrior elite and like the lightsaber not just anyone could make it and let alone use it properly . For example when traditionally forged by a master the metal was folded up to 16 times and that means it consisted of 65536 layers of steel. There was also a very complicated tempering process the included a special clay/paste ,secret recipes and methods closely guarded within sword making clans where you made some parts like the edge hard for more sharpness and the back of the blade softer for maximum performance. In modern times the Katana has almost a mythical aura around it and in fiction it is often wrongfully ascribed super abilities like being able to cut through steel.
The lightsaber is a perfect sci fi mirroring of this mythical weapon. Only the Jedi can construct it using the force (secret knowledge passed down). I believe GL intended it to be a rare and exclusive thing and you can really feel it in the scene when Luke is handed his fathers saber in ANH and Kenobi's glorifying description of it. I think he scrapped Macquires concepts and the idea of saber wielding Stormtroopers pretty quick cause he realised it clashed with his original inspiration and ideas of the Jedi.

(The scum in the Mos Eisley cantina weren't that impressed though , drinking and casual small talk resumed again about 4 seconds after Obi Wan flashed a saber and chopped a guys arm off)

Even when the Jedi where in they're prime and in greater numbers we can tell that it is still portrayed as a exclusive weapon. The only non force user seen with a lightsaber in the prequels is the abomination Grievous. He cheats at the Jedis own game with his non force multi sword technique so the wise Obi Wan cheats right back and shoots him with a blaster. Also you can tell from Obi Wans harsh reprimand and Anakin's shame when he loose his saber. GL strayed a lot in the prequels but some of the original ideas was still there.

Now you mention the black market which is also interesting. I can imagine a lightsaber by the time of TFA is extremely rare and would be literally priceless on the black market . Most of them probably disappeared in the purge (about 60 years prior to TFA ?) and there aren't many Jedi's around lately to make them. If there is any non force sensitive's out there owning one by the time of TFA i can imagine it to be mostly like "Oprah rich" guys , the head of a galactic trading company or something. Super rich people often don't know what to do with all that money so they collect rare and exclusive things (Faberge eggs , art , real estate, Ferrari's) and sometimes its also a safe way to secure money. A Picasso usually don't drop in value but likely it increases with time.
I could also see it being owned by a gangster boss or a war lord. And in the same way Jabba had frozen Han Solo like a trophy on the wall they would have a lightsaber on the waist. He/she could use it for executions and intimidation + status and all that but a Jedi would still make short work of the person in a fight.

So to conclude and summarize my way to long rant: Your point about the ignition trigger makes perfect sense to me but at the same time i am perfectly fine with anyone being able to ignite it. I think these weapons are exclusive and rare enough (in the galaxy far far away) . And like people has stated previously, i could pick up a Katana and wield it around a bit but in combat a real samurai with the proper training and meditation would slice me to pieces before i could say sushi!

BTW . DUDE! Your professor hasn't seen Empire or what ? Kick him in the nuts

 

I had an excellent point to make until someone mentioned Pre Visla, but I suppose it could still stand.

Maybe wielding a lightsaber only requires a small amount of force sensitivity, and since midichlorians are still canon there are obviously varying levels of force sensitivity.

For Greivous, let's not forget that he was infused with the blood of Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas... not sure if that's still canon, but if true, would explain his ability to use a lightsaber and could have made him semi-force sensitive.

For Han, I believe there is a popular fan-theory that he is also semi-force sensitive. His use of "I have a bad feeling about this" could show that he has some sort of pre-cognition like a lot of force sensitives have. I have always felt it's a bit of a stretch myself, but it aids in this discussion, so why not.

Pre Visla, I don't have any good idea, but the darksaber is cool as Hell.

 

literally everyone is force sensitive on some level... Its a gradient, not a "Yes or no" deal.

As well if you could just get a blood transfusion and gain force sensitivity... welli t would be dumb, that is like... peak fan fic.

There really is no point in arguing that only Force Sensitives can use lightsabers, it has been prove anyone can hold and activate them repeatedly in canon.

Hando, Cassie Criar, Pre Vizla, Han, Grievous...

 

I am sorry to disagree. Light sabre is not made with laser. Blasters do not fire lasers. It is plasma. Laser, once fired, can' t stop. It is a beam, look for the differenc for example at the beginning of episode three, you will see ships firing plasma and one firing laser.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 28, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 28, 2015 ---

And don' t forget 3PO. He said that line too and I always suspected there's more behind that golden mask....

 

I think the Sith are extinct. I think that's part of what we'll learn in Episode VII.

I think the Jedi are believed to be extinct too, I am also starting to believe everyone in the film thinks Luke is dead. That he fell when the Jedi Temple fell, in what was the first victory for First Order and the real origin of their resurgence.

I also believe the raid in the temple happens just after the incident with the nebula. They return from the nebula renewed and attack the Jedi Temple and Kylo Ren joins their cause in the process.

Light sabers are weapons anyone can use. They aren't very useful in untrained hands. Anyone can use Nunchuks, but they are largely useless (and even dangerous) to anyone without training.

I can't figure out the symbolism of the damn saber in this one yet. It "lights up" and ignites the film by all accounts, but then later seems to be a symbol of one generation passing on their cause to another. A torch, literally passed from the old to the new. It's also a Macguffin for a while, but I also believe Act II makes everyone realize the saber isn't nearly as important as the person to whom the saber is meant to be passed.

Finn uses it. Debate among yourselves if he'll be Force Sensitive or not. My guess is he's actually the Han Solo replacement, he'l; get the Falcon, he'll earn Chewie's respect and companionship and like Han comes from a dark past.

Poe is really Leia, only with the added ability to be a great pilot. He's also very good at showing up at the last minute and bailing people out. I wager he does that a lot in the next four films (and I do believe there will be four and not three in this next series, but I digress).

Rey is your Jedi. Unlike Luke, she's far more reluctant to accept that (and who can blame her given all the horrible things that have transpired in the last few decades).

But the Sith are gone now. Not only is Snoke NOT Darth Plagueis there is no "Darth" at all. He's not Sith. He's something entirely different, linked to the nebula.

The Jedi are gone now. Maz is not a Jedi. She doesn't even use or want a light saber by all accounts and lets herself be worshiped with statues and runs a seedy, pirate bar. She's a mystic, someone greatly gifted and mysterious, but probably not fully on board with General Organa's motives and clearly has no clue where Luke is, or if he's even alive.

But we already see Kylo with a crude imitation of a light saber, making it clear: Not only are Sith and Jedi gone now, but the art of making their primary weapon is now lost.