SPECULATION Should Star Wars Fans be Concerned?

The only thing I felt rushed was travel, that does make for boring TV. I did find it jarring for 1 moment everyone at Winterfell and next moment they arrive at Dragonstone. To have travel as part of the story you need more story to tell that works while traveling. I didnt find peoples stories truncated. I felt that a number of characters had completed their development and were just part of the moving the story forward. They were who they were and werent going to change into anything more.

 

I felt the relationship between Jon and Dany (what the climactic tragedy of the series is predicated on) was very rushed. We didn’t dwell with it for very long before an otherwise irrelevant revelation splits them apart. The pieces all add up, but weren’t really nurtured enough to have the dramatic effect that should have been (for me). It was a lot of ‘tell over show’.

Which is funny, because I couldn’t care less about all the geographic qualms. I don’t mind any ‘jetpacking’ so long as the characters and their arcs are properly served.

Definitely disagree. The Jamie character’s storyline, for example, is very condensed. Where he is mentally and physically at the start of the season is in marked contrast to where he ends it. It’s faithful to the character’s journey overall, but it’s noticeably abrupt for these episodes in particular.

A longer season, with no focus on zombie shenanigans could have explored this far deeper and provided greater insight into the character, his motivations, and how his ultimate resolution reflects the entirety of his journey. I feel the same for most of the central players. But, it is what it is. Good enough IMO

 

I felt that Jaime final character was established at the end of last year when he turned away from Cersei and left. The rest was just his living that life until he returned to try and save Cersei life. Not to fight for her. He turned away not turned against.

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2019, Original Post Date: May 21, 2019 ---

Yes Arya and the Hound did indeed travel from Winterfell to Kings Landing. Then shortly after so did John, the Northern Army, the Unsullied, and Dothraki. Still you need a story to tell to have stuff to show. In the past we had stuff to show on the road. The character development and relationship between Arya and the Hound was all established previously. Otherwise it is showing Arya and the Hounds new adventures of sleeping in different Inn's and eating Chicken.

As for Cersei and Kings Landing you could show them building new scorpions, but that would have given away the surprise. You could have shown Golden Company training (boring). They did show that she was bringing in the common people into the city to act as a shield. I mean what else was their to show. The truth of the matter is Cersei just was waiting and looking out the window, because that is all she could do. I dont know what more we needed to know about Sansa and Bran. Just seems we are looking for stuff to put off the end.

 

And yet the added component with Brienne complicates that perspective by introducing inner strife for the character that isn’t really explored. It isn’t nonexistent, but it’s more nascent than it had to be. A traditional season of this show would have spent more time with that to the betterment of the story.

Arya abandoning a lifetime of revenge after a brief lecture was also an abrupt pitch shift. A traditional season of this show would have spent more time leading up to that. Varys’ brazen plotting against Dany was also strikingly out of concert with his conspiratorial nature. That could have used some more incubation too. I could go on and on, but I’ll spare you and everybody else.

Again, I don’t disagree with where the story resolves (well, the Bran thing is head scratchy to me), but I agree with others that it could have benefitted from spacing things out more - affording greater real-estate to the storylines that were pivotal to its conclusion.

 

Why not discuss?

I dont know what you mean by Brienne.

Arya abandoned a lot of kills. She already had become more subtle with who she kills and doesnt kill. After all she is heading to Kings Landing with the hound, but he isnt the only one. I think that all the other experiences she had experienced changed her perspective and the Hound just pushed her over the edge. I felt that Vary's was heading in this very same direction last year. He was doubting Dany. He just got to a point that he had no little birds or anyone else to help him any longer so he simply had only 1 thing to do and honestly if you ask me he waited to long. I dont know what he thought the notes sent around the realm would do when Kings Landing was going to fall the next day and their was no reason to delay the attack so that his notes could get around and lords confront Dany.

 

For me personally, the majority of my distaste for season 8 comes from the fact there was no single major threat at all.

The Night King is built up over 7 seasons to be this world-ending doombringer and yet once he gets past the wall, he can't even take a single castle out. Cersei in season 7 is built up to be a formidable foe with her hiring of the Golden Company, alliance with the Ironborn, and construction of the scorpions. Yet they're all destroyed in a matter of seconds in episode 5 because the plot demanded it. Then finally Daerneys is left as the big bad with one episode left, does little but give a speech, and is stabbed by Jon about halfway through the finale.

If D&D were that hesitant about continuing the show, they should have just handed the reins to someone else.

 

Jamie and Brienne becoming ‘more than friends’. It serves to introduce the possibility that he could choose another path, but has resigned himself to the one he was on. That it was inevitable. Without proper investment though it almost comes off as cheap fan service - a pointless one night stand. It could have been used to greatly enrich both characters, but lands more frivolous by not living in it for longer.

Obviously, but which experiences in particular? Which ones, in addition to this one, convinced her that her life’s ambitions were a foolhardy dead end? She doesn’t just give up on avenging a particular grievance, she gives up on the entire ethos and pursues another enterprise altogether. It’s not inexplicable, but could have profited from additional insight.

Yeah, that’s kind of the point being made. There was no need for this development to be injected at the point of ineffectualness. This could have been presented in a manner that would have actually had consequence - that would have been inline with his style of machinations. The abridged format didn’t allow for that though. They needed to get right to it. Make sense?

 

I thought it was rather obvious with both Jamie and Arya. Once Jamie heard what Cersei had done he knew that Dany would show no mercy no matter what Tyrion, Jon or Varys would do. So he had to go.

Arya change came from being back with her family. The pack together helped move her to a more human character again. She softened and killing wasnt just a vengeful thing, but something to protect her family. She slipped back until the Hound told her to stop. I also feel it was obvious to her at that time that Cersei was going to die. So why kill herself to do it herself.

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2019, Original Post Date: May 21, 2019 ---

Westeros was in many ways now a ghost town. What would happen on the trip between Arya, the Hound and some stranger(s). What happened was being back with her family. Then the experiences at Winterfell with Sansa, Bran and Littlefinger last year. Her reunification with Jon and the battle with the night king. It wasnt 1 event it was her collective experiences over the last 2 seasons. She learned to trust her sister and protected her family. Her turning away from simple instrument of revenge and being part of the pack was when she rejected being a faceless man and declared she is Arya Stark. Yes initially she felt that was to get revenge, but once she got her family back things changed.

We got the backstory of why the Iron Bank was backing Cersei last year. As for Vary's she warned him last year in episode 2. He had already showed signs of treason. He made it clear to her his loyalty was with the realm. Also remember she knew he was the one in Westeros that was arranging for her to be killed in Essos. Vary's was always treasonous. He didnt have any choice in his mind.

 

I can’t speak for anyone else, but my criticism here isn’t about a lack of comprehension. I’m not at a loss or confounded about anything that happened. I understand how people got to where they got. I grasp the motivational aspects. I appreciate the gesture, but it’s not really necessary.

What I’m saying is that, for my own personal enjoyment, I would have liked this season more if it had taken its time and built each of the character’s storylines up more. Not laboriously so, not needlessly so, but fleshed them out at a more liberal pace so I could fully ruminate on where they were and where they would end. I feel that would have been more impactful for me as a viewer.

Anymore of any of that wouldn’t have improved it for you and that’s great . . . for you. I’m not saying I found it bad or unenjoyable, just less so than what I believe it was capable of had it been managed less expeditiously. But that's just me.

 

Dont get me wrong. I would have loved to have longer season 7 and season 8. I just have a hard time coming up with more content. So many of the characters had fully developed who they were, who they needed to be. They also congregated together. Early in the series people were scattered all over the globe. So you got a few minutes with Dany in Essos, a few minutes with Jon north of the wall, a few minutes of Jamie in Dorn, a few minutes of Arya in Bravos, etc. etc. etc. Now the characters were together and scenes covered 2, 3, 10 people at once. Just harder to keep the story going at the same slow pace that it did over the first 6 years.

 

There was this spot on thread I read on Reddit the other week that perfectly surmised why there are so many issues with the path to the show's endgame, and it all stems from David & D.B.'s decision to axe the fAegon plotline from the books for the show. fAegon's storyline ties directly into Dorne, Daerneys, and Jon's.

For those unfamiliar with the books, after escaping captivity in Essos, Tyrion meets a boy called Griff who's a part of the Golden Company. He's later revealed to be Aegon Targaryen, and he intends to retake Westeros with his mercenaries and marry his aunt. He already has the support of the Dornish army, and begins his invasion near the end of DoD. Now we only have Vary's word to go on that he's of Targaryen blood, but most readers are of the thought that he's really a Blackfyre: a Targaryen bastard, and the parallel of Jon Snow. That would start to threaten Dany's claim to the throne.

Now, on top of that, if they'd actually respected Euron's arc from the books, he'd be really dark and into the occult. He intends to force Daerneys into submission and marry her to become king. In the last book, he reveals he's gotten his hand on a Valyrian horn that apparently binds dragons to a person's will. Now assume they'd actually respected the source material and followed this thread through. Not only is Daerney's claim threatened, but now her very children are being forced against her.

Bring in Jon as another Targaryen and suddenly Daerneys who once held all the power, is reduced to almost nothing, it would actually make sense now why she goes mad.

Not only that, but narrative-wise including fAegon, would have generated a conflict in the South, freeing up the whole North to focus solely on the army of the dead.

 

Not at all. D&D will get fired from the project soon enough.
Don't hate the messenger.

 

I'm sure Ron Howard will do a bang up job in their place.

 

The scene where he knighted her was the best scene of the entire season. IMHO they should have left it at that.

 

Every complaint about Season 8 has been present since Season 5 and many people have pointed this out but for years we were told to "shut up and read the books" if we don't like it. And yet here we are Season 8 was everything that was wrong with 5 forward all in one season. Bad writing, dumb character decisions, a preference for style over substance and an overall lack of respect for their own show, the books they are based on and the fans who have been watching for almost a decade. I said it when they were first announced that I am terrified for what these two hacks will do in Star Wars because they are horribly inept and now they won't even have the benefit of being able to ride on the writing of a much more talented person then they.

 

I'm with you on this one, unfortunately.


The only reason D&D were brought on board for SW was so that Disney could use the "from the producers/writers of Game of Thrones" in trailers for the new trilogy. Now, however, any sort of affiliation with D&D/ GoT s8 will be detrimental to marketing imo, so these two basically serve no purpose.

Given Lucasfilm's sketchy history with firing directors, I doubt they'll want to go through all that again. I imagine Lucasfilm will push D&D slowly into the background of the "producers" roll without them doing any real "producing"...