The Death of Star Wars

I'm surprised that fans are were surprised that Luke would die in this Trilogy. If you look at the history of SW movies, every major character pretty much dies in either their Trilogy or the next Trilogy (Anakin, Palpatine, Yoda, Padme, Kenobi), so I was fully prepared for Luke, Leia and Han to go in the ST. I actually thought they would do it in this order: Han in 7, Leia in 8 and Luke in 9 simply to give each one their respective sendoff. Now the death of Carrie Fisher changes Leia's death in Episode 9 to probably being in the Opening Crawl, but there is not much more they can really do.

 

It's nothing new though. I've met this argument countless of times online long before Disney bought Lucasfilm.

Anyways, the special editions didn't kill Star Wars.
The prequels didn't kill Star Wars.
Nor will modern Star Wars.

What might happen over times is fatigue, considering how many movies we are getting. But after some break interest will most likely grow again. This is the true power of the saga.

 

I do see more of this, and I think this is a very good sign!

I think it will only more so become the case as new fans dig deeper into the saga and realize there is much more going on than initially meets the eye.

Many existing fans too -- myself included -- now have new opportunities and incentives to explore Star Wars intellectually and creatively.

Star Wars offers a rather wonderful gateway into the larger realms of mythology, literature, symbolism, and philosophy. So much yet to be explored, connected, and enjoyed, from where I stand.

Also, I think, when all this activity is viewed from a positive perspective, away from the lesser short-term reactions, this is collectively nothing less than a Star Wars renaissance!

So, for me, such a truly wonderful time to be a Star Wars fan and a student of the Force =)

 

Exactly! From antiquity onwards you had a group which were referred to as the homerists. As @Jayson has said it: Star Wars is our times' Iliad and Odyssee. We'll be trying to uncover its themes, tropes, symbolism, philosophy, morality and narrative structure for many years to come. Most likely for an eternity.

 

I've been thinking the same thing, but for slightly different reasons. I don't think it's TLJ that risks making Star Wars less culturally relevant, I think it's Star Wars fatigue that may be the driving factor. The OT & PT had 3 years between films. Now we're getting a Star Wars film every year. Don't get me wrong, I'll take all the new Star Wars I can get, but I think less hardcore fans might view it differently. I mean...in 5 months we have another Star Wars film. I'm excited for Solo, but I worry that some of the novelty that came with the "rareness" of Star Wars is being diminished by the 1 a year release schedule.

 

Let's revisit this in mid-December 2018, when we won't have a SW film

 

I'm not saying that I don't enjoy getting a new Star Wars every year. I was more wondering what effect it has on the general audience

 

In my opinion, I see it like this-

There are tons of different ways to categorize films, but there is one distinction that I think it dying out: the difference between what we'll call a "serious film" and a "popcorn flick". Now, Star Wars is meaningful to a lot of people (including myself) but I'd categorize it historically as a "popcorn flick"- and despite its name, that is in no way derogatory. In fact, I often prefer movies like that! Movies that are fun, summer blockbusters, that sort of thing. It doesn't mean that the movie is any dumber than a serious film, just that it has a different purpose.

Now, I'm sure there are many theories out there, but I tend to attribute cynical channels like Cinema Sins to causing this- either way, whatever is causing it, we seem to be overly critical of media now. Consider Justice League, for instance. Is it a landmark achievement in art for the film industry? No, of course not! But I know this: this November, I was able to go see a movie featuring Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, and the whole gang fighting side by side, all while I gobbled down delicious buttery and caloric popcorn. Kid me would've been so disappointed if I let petty details ruin that experience for me.

Does that mean I can't be critical? Of course not, Justice League totally had its faults, and lots of them! But I was able to enjoy the experience, and as a consumer, isn't that largely the point?

Well, some would argue not. And that's my case here- the "popcorn flick" is dying because we've stopped letting ourselves just enjoy things. Instead, everyone has to be an armchair movie critic, regardless of their film background. Even incidental stuff like "this character did something that I wouldn't have done in that situation, so it's a plothole" is letting these movies be ruined by many crowds.

So, in a similar way- I got my popcorn and an incredibly enjoyable new Star Wars movie starring Mark freakin Hammil last month. Some people did not get that, because they refuse to let go. So honestly, I really pity them.

 

I was super excited about the ST and assumed Disney would try to tell new stories -- but now I see that they're unable to do this and instead are tearing down the old characters and stories so as to try to puff up their own rehashed one dimensional garbage.

Destroying Luke Skywalker is the best example of this, but also rehashing the Empire-Rebellion conflict. This is what Rian Johnson led us to. It should disgust anyone paying attention.

So yes, Disney's war on Star Wars has been very effective. They're successfully destroying a great story and a great cultural institution.

 

Good point. What about The Joker? He's a iconic villain almost on pair with Darth Vader. Jack Nicholson's Joker was pretty much the gold standard for the Joker. Then Heath Ledger got casted to play the Joker and people really hated that. People was hating the choice before they even saw the movie and when The Dark Knight came out, Ledger's Joker surprised everyone and most of the fandom loves his take on character (we'll skip Leto's Joker). People til this day are still doing VS threads for Ledger's Joker vs Nicholson's Joker. My point is, Han Solo is an iconic character and if things play out, the re-casted Han could surprise us all. Let's face it, all 3 characters are going to get re-casted at some point to tell other stories that normally would be left for books or cartoons. What a better way to soften the blow by re-casting a younger Han? I for one would love to see Shadows of the Empire adaptation on the big screen, but in order for that to happen, they have to re-cast the main 3.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 11, 2018 ---

Brosnan is Bond!!!! (to me) but Roger Moore is a very close 2nd.

 

TLJ was the only terrible SW film.

But I'll never give up, had a great run, loved 4,5,6 and 7

1 and 2 were fine, 3 was much better.

Rogue one was pretty good.

Only one bad out of all of them, I'll always have hope

In JJ we trust!

 

To some people the ST is ruining the lore around what they grew up with. A lot of that has been covered on multiple threads, so I won't go into specifics here. Just look at the topics and the issues people have. They are all over the map, from rehash to condescending to almost trolling the audience. Those who like the movie often say those who dislike it say it's because it's too new, but I haven't really seen anyone who dislikes it actually say that anywhere. I think most fans wanted something new as long as it fit with the established lore.

So basically if the lore we followed for 30-40 years was not in fact the reality of the SW universe, than maybe the movies weren't that good within the new context and reality that the ST has brought us. I think that's why some people are just swearing off the ST, because it makes both the OT and PT feel somehow less. The good guys were trying to beat the bad guys at tennis while the bad guys were playing golf, but the refs were officiating a hockey game. Within that context the ST takes something away from the previous trilogies.

 

Maybe a few decades from now Han Solo will have been recasted several times and people won't even remember Harrison Ford's Solo. However, I think the situation right now is very different from James Bond or any superhero/villain. Those characters were originally conceived in other media, books in the case of James Bond and comics for the others and they had many different takes made by different artists in different comics, tv shows, cartoons. Harrison Ford is the original Han Solo and has been the only Han Solo for the last 40 years, separating him from the character is not going to be an easy task.
Considering how large the star wars universe is, I don't see the point in re casting any of the original characters, it's a bad decision in my opinion, I had the same issue with the new star trek, I still don't understand why they did that. On the other hand, now that I think about it, I had no problem with Ewan McGregor playing Obi Wan, so who knows, we'll have to wait and see...

 

There’s a pretty big difference between ‘playing the young version of an old character’ and ‘playing the slightly younger version of a young character’ though, yeah? It’s basically the same character. And it’s in continuity, which means you don’t get to have another ‘take’ on it like Bond or Batman.

 

Yes of course, I was just trying to stay positive, I simply don't understand why the make these decisions.

 

Yeah, I was more speaking to what you were responding to than anything else. There's been some similar casting situations in the past, but this Solo recast is a rather unique animal. I have a degree of morbid curiosity for this more than optimism.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 11, 2018 ---

Good point. The brand wasn’t doing so hot there for a while from the late ‘80s to mid ‘90s. It wasn’t dead though. It was just hibernating.

 

I'll tell you what is tiring me.....and it isn't Star Wars!!!

It is threads with a title like this.

 

To this thread:

 

Almost 41 years and still going strong!

 

Definitely. It was actually the books and games that grew the interest again.