The Death of Star Wars

@Jaxxon a very thought provoking Op... nice post.

me personally, i think that TLJ was the refreshing boost that the franchise needed.. and quite desperately.
I think that a new generation of fans will join us aging dinosaurs if the films that follow TLJ, take RJ's lead and challenge us like his movie did.

i think i'm in a similar place my friend.

i chalked up my 4th viewing last week... and i'm still not ready to really discuss it in detail. perhaps 5th time's the charm? lol

 

And the announcement that there would be a movie called Episode I. They announced this somewhere in the early 90s and all of a sudden Lucasfilm was churning out new material again.

 

You found the rehashed ESB elements and return to the Empire-Rebels conflict refreshing? Well, I have some rotten hamburger you're sure to enjoy.

Maybe it was all those refreshing plot holes letting air in you liked?

 

belittling those that liked the movie wont score you cool points with me or many others here.

hate the movie? fine.. scream it from the rooftops. i won't judge your opinion... don't judge mine.

 

I think his argument was that TLJ wasn't original as he felt it resembled ESB. For example, I love TFA but I wouldn't argue with someone who said that many parts of the movie were lifted from ANH. That doesn't mean I still can't love it, and they can still hate it. There would be nothing wrong with anyone saying, "I love TLJ but I can't disagree when fans complain parts were lifted from ESB."

 

Indeed. And calling TLJ a rip off of TESB is a farce. Sure, it shares common narratives (as does every SW film) - but that would've been impossible to avoid. It just literally cannot win:

"It's a rip off of TESB, what with the Jedi training (though there isn't any), the Snow/salt planet battle and familial reveal!"...followed in the next breath with "Luke is too different from the one we knew in the OT! He should've been the same!" and "This didn't feel like a Star Wars film!".

If you "hate" the movie, then you'll find an argument to support that, even if it contradicts the one you previously made.
As for The Death of Star Wars...I'd be more concerned if people weren't talking about it rather than the interest, positive or negative, that TLJ has generated.

 

I disagree as AOTC and ROTS really don't resemble any narrative from ESB & ROTJ. TPM is the only PT movie that really resembles the structure of ANH, right along with the parade/medal ceremony. The PT has a whole macro story of the building of the empire/falling of the republic that just isn't in the OT, as you don't see that big world picture in 4,5,6.

The ST has so far mirrored the tone and plot of the OT (while moving the chess pieces of the characters). TFA is a crowd pleaser like ANH, TLJ is a more dark movie like ESB. The macro story here is Resistance vs First Order which is no different then Rebels vs Empire. Rey and Ren are the main characters comparable to Luke vs Vader. Again, the only difference is that JJ and RJ have moved some character arc's around, but have still followed the same structure as the OT, where AOTC and ROTS are much different movies altogether then ESB & ROTJ.

 

the poster didn't have an argument, he/she had a personal insult. he/she attacked the poster, instead of replying to the post.

i'm upset for those fans that didn't like TLJ, i truly am. Love it or hate - it's out there now and will be forever, and we have one more film to go.. we've gotta try and be civil with each other here

i agree.

only time will give us a true indication of how this film is judged, compared to the rest of the saga. For now.. i think it's great that everyone is giving their opinion - whether they loved it or hated it.

 

Totally agree with this. I posted this earlier, but I think TLJ will probably get a re-evaluation from most fans when it hits BluRay/Streaming, and I think many will change their opinion. I think this happens a lot with franchise movies when something is new at the 'Pro' side maybe goes too far in their praise, and then 'Anti' side goes too far in the hate, and we'll all probably meet somewhere in the middle when everyone takes a fresh look at it with repeat viewings at home.

I saw TFA 4 times in the theater, and then it took me about 2-3 times at home before I could really gauge where I ranked it compared to other SW films. It takes repeat viewings to see if certain things hold up, and sometimes certain scenes get better. I can say that for TFA, the death of Han and Rey force grabbing the Lightsaber got better on each viewing and held up really well. Where the Maz scenes and the character in general just didn't hold up.

 

A true comment, I mean take Rogue One, when i first saw it i walked away liking it, but feeling a bit miffed that we didn't get quite get the war film we where promised. But over the last year or so i've grown to really love that film.

I also think a lot will depend on what happens in 9, they stories are connected, i mean personally my enjoyment of the Force Awakens has been diminished by the Last Jedi as i don't feel those films connect well(personal opinion many disagree)but if episode 9 ties the 3 films together then it will likely increase my opinion of the other two films.

If how ever episode 9 fails to tie the films together, or is divisive or simply falls a bit flat. Then that will likely lower peoples opinion of the entire trilogy.

 

I did not like R1 after seeing it in the theater, but now I really enjoy it after seeing it a few times on BluRay. That is why I'm anxious to re-visit TLJ in the spring as I think repeat viewing will probably change my mind for the good. I think my biggest problem is I almost hate the Movie Theater experience anymore after years and years having a Surround Sound System at home to enjoy movies. There were 8 trailers played before TLJ along with the constant interruptions of people checking their phones throughout, I'm at the point where the BluRay release is when I will truly get to enjoy a SW movie anymore.

 

All my viewing experiences of the Last Jedi have actually been really good, so i can't really blame that for my opinion of the movie, but i'm holding out hope if i keep watching it it might change my opnion of the film.... i hate disliking a star wars film.

 

What I have learned from all SW movies since ESB is that none are perfect, nor is every story going to totally work for you. I had problems with the PT movies for a long time, and I sort of developed a way to enjoy SW movies more where I can watch them all now. You try to watch them thinking about the big picture (larger story arc) the whole time, as there are certain scenes that will make the other movies better, and sort of make the journey of watching them as one narrative better. In the process, you learn to tolerate the bad stuff, because it's worth it for the good stuff.

For example, I watch the PT now more for the macro story and tolerate Anakin's story. The PT gives a good story of the Jedi Council, The Rise of Palpatine, The Rise of the Empire, The Crumbling of the Republic, as it makes you look at the OT story differently knowing there is a bigger world out there that was never explored. I have learned to live with the fact that the Anakin story will never work for me as intended, but it is worth it for the bigger story. The same goes for TFA, R1, TLJ and eventually Episode 9, as if you can find those parts of the movies that help the bigger narrative of the other movies, then it's worth it when you get to the parts you don't like.

To answer the OP, this is why SW will never die for me. This is why Lucas linked all of the movies together and didn't make it like Indiana Jones where they all can standalone. Lucas doesn't get enough credit for creating this bigger story that continues the narrative with each new movie, yet still ties into the previous movies.

 

Well said. Just look at Justice League for instance. 10 years ago it would've been the biggest movie ever. Nowadays, people didn't even care to hate it as much as Batman v Superman... That is a real sign of a problem with a franchise.

 

Don't forget to pre-order your copy on 4k and Blu-Ray/Digital!

 

There is literally a whole site, 2 years of Mike Klimo's life, and a thesis dedicated to exactly how the PT is a "rip off" of the OT, or in that author's terms, "Ring Theory".
In literary terms, "chiasmus".

Cheers,
Jayson

 

I agree, dwelling on the good parts of the prequels has always helped me excuse the bad, hopefully in time i will be able to do the same with the last Jedi. I think to be honest its gonna depend a lot on 9, if that film stitches this trilogy together for me it will probably help my opinion of The Last Jedi.

 

Can someone explain to me how it is time for the jedi to end....

And then..

Luke is like

"I will not be the last Jedi"...

Im totally bent on this.