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SPOILER The Mandalorian S3E6 Chapter 22- Guns for Hire

Discussion in 'The Mandalorian' started by MBWilson, Apr 5, 2023.

  1. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    It's illogical to argue otherwise. It's fine if a person didn't like the episode, but even the responses to your question saying the plot didn't move forward don't make sense.
     
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  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Overall, I think it's striking how visually different the show is from its first season.

    Both are great, and I love the first season. But we've come a long way from arid desertscapes and empty hallways. Truly incredible how good the effects are for what is effectively just a TV show.

    That said, this episode made me formulate a bit of a conspiracy theory: Grogu wasn't supposed to be in this season.

    There's been a lot of complaints that we don't have the Dad/Son dynamic this season, and that's not entirely true (there's some great stuff, like the dart duel from the other week), but it does feel tuned down. A ton of Grogu's scenes have been pretty secondary compared to what we've previously gotten, almost like he was added in to the story after it was already outlined.

    After leaving with Luke, I assume Grogu was originally going to be with Luke all season. This is why the IG-11 plot was initially included- Din needed a companion to go to Mandalore with. Obviously that doesn't work, so eventually he ends up with Bo Katan, who he works with for the rest of the season. This is a familiar trope in video games that Mando has already been compared to like The Last of Us and God of War, the trope where the original duo split up for a bit and continue adventures with new partners.

    Meanwhile, perhaps we catch up with Grogu at Luke's temple for a while, allowing that story more time to marinate.

    And, of course, it accounts for his somewhat awkward introduction in TBoBF.

    I'm not complaining (honestly, I enjoy that he's back, I would've missed the little guy), but I do think it's interesting how his suspicious inclusion in the Fett show aligns with his somewhat suspicious sidelining in this season. Seems that some shuffling may have gone around when someone feared that Grogu is too big of a draw for the show to be removed from it.
     
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  3. MBWilson

    MBWilson Force Sensitive

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    ^This^
    It also ties into @Andrew Waples profile post about the "filler" word. Folks use the "plot moving" argument so often and falsely, they are now merely opinion. When it comes right down to it, the plot and pacing are at the will of the writers and EPs. If a viewer doesn't like an episode or the devices used to tell the story, well then, fair enough. It's a matter of taste. But it's just nonsense to try and say these professionals aren't doing their jobs. The overwhelming majority of criticism that I'm seeing for this episode and S3 in general, are solely based on the critics' thinking they themselves could do it better. It's not what they had cooked up in their heads. Severe cases of the Coulda/Shoulda/Wouldas.

    Hindsight is 20/20, and I think this episode will age well. I have seen several people comment that after rewatching it, they feel better about it. This sorta reminds me of BDH's first episode, Chapter 4- Sanctuary. It was initially dismissed as "filler" and "weak", but watching it now, it plays a big part in that arc, it sets up much of that season's resolution, and it is beautiful both visually and as a story.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 6, 2023, Original Post Date: Apr 6, 2023 ---
    https://www.billboard.com/culture/tv-film/lizzo-the-mandalorian-role-reaction-1235299006/
     
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  4. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    Me:
    “There is no way that is Jack Black.”
    “There is no way that is Lizzo.”
    “Christopher Lloyd??”
     
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  5. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Keep in mind: Mando S1 was D+ first TV show.
     
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  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Of course!

    And again, I think it still looks great, they're easily believably still in the same universe.

    It's just, man, it's been cool to see the scope get so wide. I think the first time I really realized this was the big ship the Armorer was on in TBoBF, something about that setting just felt epic.
     
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  7. Intergalactic Lawman

    Intergalactic Lawman Rebel Commander

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    I loved season 1 and 2...but feel like this season is meandering. Din and Grogu often feel like an afterthought. I can't help thinking Grogu was "forced" into this season (and BOBF) when clearly the intention was for him to remain with Luke. They have undone one of the most satisfying endings in all of SW media. Tell me honestly, If Grogu were NOT in this season what would be different...?

    This episode felt like a SW parody, like something you would see at the start of the Oscars where they insert the host into Star Wars... (Specifically the scenes involving Jack Black and Lizzo)

    I keep hearing fans say "There's still 5 more episodes, 4, 3, 2, 1..." and we'll be done.

    Even if the last 2 episodes are outstanding - Will I ever watch the first 6 again? Probably not.

    The negativity for this episode is off the charts atm - I would be scrambling to get a trailer out for your last 2 episodes to drown it out! Since the season started they have lost 25% of the audience. I think that will be more now...
     
    #67 Intergalactic Lawman, Apr 6, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2023
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  8. MBWilson

    MBWilson Force Sensitive

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    This seems to be the most common complaint for this season, yet it seems odd to me. Help me understand how it seems so, because I have a theory.

    Well, off the top of my head, if Grogu had stayed with Luke, Din would be dead and drained dry in the Mines, and Bo-Katan would be dead under a pile of rubble on Kalevala. What satisfying ending did they undo?
     
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  9. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    It's called The Mandalorian, I mean it's not called Star Wars: Din and Grogu, like Andor, Solo, Obi-Wan and will be Ahsoka. I think making the focus of uniting Mandos to take back Mandalore was S3 with some fun side adventures along the way. Still not sure about the whole cloning and research plot of it, though. Something to do with Moff Gideon?
     
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  10. Old Jedi

    Old Jedi Rebel General

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    I hate to say this, but as promising as The Mandalorian started out in season one, season two was disappointing and now it has fallen off a cliff here in season 3. This most recent episode is a new low point and imo this whole season has been downright terrible. I can barely make it through the episodes. The storylines are semi-interesting in concept but the execution is horrible. The dialogue is pathetic, the actors are wooden, the special effects are no better than something on the SyFy channel and there isn’t an ounce of excitement. What a letdown. What the heck happened? It’s like they’re not even trying to make a good show anymore. It’s a though Filoni and teams recent inspiration has been the SW Holiday Special and not SW.

    Bring on Andor season 2. Please.
     
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  11. MBWilson

    MBWilson Force Sensitive

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    Exactly. I see people get hung up on the title and who it refers to. Din is the Mandalorian, he is who the show was named for. That doesn't mean the show can't feature other characters, right? Someone got all twisted up because the show titled Andor had Mon Mothma as a co-lead... It's just a name.

    My theory about how people are saying Din and Grogu have become secondary this season, is fairly simple. The first two seasons, they were the only main characters. Everyone else played a distant second, and they all were mostly in and out of the story. This season, Bo-Katan has been right there with them for most of the story. It seems like she is taking over the show because nobody else has ever had the presence that she does. Also, the character AND actor both have very commanding personalities, while Din is much more the strong silent type.

    In order to support my theory, I've just done what must be one of the nerdiest things I've done in a while. I just scanned through all of S3 and tracked the screentimes for Din, Grogu and Bo. Any guesses? Through six episodes:
    Din - 124:30
    Grogu - 105:45
    Bo - 99:45
    Equally as interesting, total runtime for the season is 231:00 minutes. So just less than half of S3 so far has not had either of them. There was very little time when Din and Bo have not been together. Roughly 22 minutes of their difference was from episode 1.
     
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  12. Lord Phanatic

    Lord Phanatic Luminous Being
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    It could be that the execs kept him around this season due to fear of falling ratings. He's quite the sensation.

    I watched a few reviews prior to watching the episode. There's a lot of hate out there over Lizzo's performance and and physical appearance. After viewing the episode I don't see what all of the hooplah is about concering her acting. I thought she did a decent job. It's not like she's an accomplished actor. It takes practice. One has to start somewhere right? As far as her looks IMO I think she's a beautiful woman. The ugly people are the ones making all of the ugly comments. Besides isn't star wars about different planets, races species and cultures? I though she and Jack Black pulled it off for the light hearted roles they we're playing. They werent meant to be taken all that seriously. They are happy people on a happy planet where no one even has to work. Black and Liz conveyed that perfectly. It looks like they had a lot of fun acting the parts and it transfers well onto the screen.

    @LadyMusashi I loved the hologram cape as well. Really cool.

    Some of those Ugnaught facial expressions we're hilarious.

    @Rogues1138 The ship at the beginning put me in the mind of The Fifth Element.

    I did this art (Empress Omo Wali) some years ago that places me in the mind of The Dutchess of Plazir-15.
    20180221_194855.jpg
     
    #72 Lord Phanatic, Apr 7, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2023
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  13. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    What is it about Star Wars that draws so many Debbie Downers? Good grief, it's like they're reading talking points directly like a political campaign. :D
    The only review I watch anymore are from Star Wars Explained. He does a good job recapping things and he's honest about what he thinks without pulling the hyperbole chain like so many of the grifters out there.
     
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  14. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Loved these guys in this chapter hope they come back in the next season.
    Screenshot 2023-04-07 7.02.48 AM.png Screenshot 2023-04-07 7.02.19 AM.png
     
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  15. Freelance Splicer

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    Meh. I wasn't impressed. There were good parts, sure, but the parts I found entertaining were book-ends to the middle, which could have been MUCH better. Sure, it was nice to have some cameos, but the story of Plazir was lame and I didn't care for the characters beyond the droids. It was (another) side quest that came across to me as being more appropriate for Clone Wars or Bad Batch than The Mandalorian.

    I know who Lizzo is and I don't care for her "talent". Chapter 22 didn't change my opinion. I think Disney wanted to check off as many boxes as they could, so they cast her. I'm thankful it was a cameo instead of a recurring character.

    Stop. Please. Race has nothing to do with it. You didn't see any chemistry between the two (Jack Black and Lizzo) because there wasn't any. Whether that was because that is what the Director wanted to convey or because Lizzo sucks has nothing to skin color. Perrin and Mon Mothma don't have chemistry (in Andor) because she's leading a double life while in the middle of an arranged Chandrilan (sp) marriage - no one complains about it because that's the character. With the Duchess, you don't have the character development, so you're left to make a judgement call on what you see in her few minutes of screen time. You can walk away with a negative impression with no consideration of her race, body size, or prior "accomplishments".

    Criticizing Whitney's performance in Bodyguard is fair. I didn't think there was a ton of chemistry there - at the time, (I was barely a teenager) it seemed forced - but you also have to keep in mind that it was her first movie. She was marginally better in her later (except the Cinderella remake). An amazing singer, sure, but not the strongest actress. Again, not seeing it the same way as your colleague did isn't a question of racial perspective - just regular ol' perspective. Like white people, black folks don't universally see things the same way.

    I don't think you need to design TV shows and movies to reflect (the demographics of) society - you need to design them to be entertaining and commercially successful. For all of the race chatter surrounding Lizzo, I haven't heard a peep from anyone about how between Andor and The Mandalorian, Hispanics are crushing it in a GFFA :)
     
    #75 Freelance Splicer, Apr 7, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2023
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  16. daRinze

    daRinze Force Sensitive

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    The MAN-DeLOREAN...

    339999897_1405358543551935_4766066424352782167_n.jpg
     
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    Martoto Force Sensitive

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  18. Intergalactic Lawman

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    100% agreed!
     
  19. malakye88

    malakye88 Rebel General

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    The first episode in the 3 seasons I lost interest in, I think somebody above called it - felt very Christmas Special humour.

    My guess the cloning plot that has been brewing will be a feature that makes it into the Filoni film mirroring the trilogy novels 'Heir of the Empire' (instead of cloned Luke / cloned Grogu) - I've been thinking about this for some time, and with the Ashoka trailer adding Thrawn and fallen Jedi - it's cemented my guess for now unless it all resolves within the next 1.5 seasons in Mando which ofc it could.
     
  20. Intergalactic Lawman

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    If you watched the original Star Wars film, and then put this episode on straight away - You couldn't tell me with a straight face that they feel like they are from the same GFFA!

    The only interesting part for me, was what could have happened if Doc hit that button...but at that point they had already lost me.

    You can call this Star Wars. But there is an unmistakable feeling in your gut, that what you are watching is anything but!
     
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