SPECULATION The Role of the Jedi and the Force in Episode VII

Well, I actually think Rebels is really going to focus on two facets of the OT:

1- Obviously the seminal events and [years] that created the Rebel Alliance
2- The hunting of those Jedi that survived the purge

We were told as much, BUT the reason I mention it is because I believe we will see the ultimate fates of certain Jedi who escaped the purge such as Kanan and I believe Ahsoka and others. I do not believe that any Jedi surived to Episode IV time and beyond. I truly believe that Yoda and Obi-Wan knew that Luke and Leia were the only two Force powerful beings left in the galaxy. Kenobi was discounting that there was time to train Leia to be a Jedi -- at least by them -- but Yoda had faith.

By Episode VII Luke is the only legitimate, trained and powerful Jedi and most other Force attuned beings are rogues without training and guidance, Teaching themselves. However, I could see a pseudo "Sith Lord" attempting to train some of these beings in the Force as well to some extent. Basically just a watered down, bastardized version of the old Jedi and Sith. Just my theory based on all the available "facts" which aren't many.

 

whilst i think you could be bang on.. i still have questions..
now would Yoda and Kenobi truly know if all jedi's had been killed? and if you knew of others.. would you tell a skywalker? lol

is rebels really go gonna go that way? everybody dies? i just don't see it. i know thats kinda the whole point of the series, but even so.. i can't see them not having a semi-happy ending for the crew of the ghost.. somehow.

gah.. i'm doubting my own name and where i live at this point

 

You raise lots of great questions. Caveat -- I don't know. I can only speculate like you and everyone else.

The thing you have to consider is that it is hard for these characters to be alive post Jedi when they've mysteriously been absent all this time. It's the same for the BIg Baddie IF s/he turns out to have been the puppet master behind the scenes all these years. Where were you when we needed you most? kind of thing. They can't use that gimmick too much and they can't spend tons of time developing backstories for where they all were.

Ultimately, I'm with you -- confused.

 

Potentially a more accurate analogy than you intended... people tend to think that the Christ child was born, and everything flourished... remember that at one time, he was being hunted by the government and had only 12 followers, one of whom betrayed him...

 

Absolutely, there are loads of parallels there. So you can see why if they're not careful, it'll be far too complicated a movie for casual movie-goers to follow.

Ye gods, I hope Ahsoka gets either some closure or a death scene in Rebels, as well as Ventress and Bariss, definitely. They were some of my favourite characters from TCW and everything was left just so open-ended with them. I definitely see SWR as being almost a second chance to pick up on what was missed out on with the cancellation of TCW. From what I remember reading, they had season 7 all planned out as well - maybe they can tweak those episodes and include some of TCW characters as well in later seasons once Kanan and co are all fleshed-out and well-established. I'd love to see Bariss escape somehow and become a new big bad as in this fan art:

Possibly, but then I think that the choice to recreate the Jedi Order or not in its old guide will be largely dependent on whether the surviving Jedi are able to meet up with Luke. Luke would probably be more likely to show them where they went wrong, and perhaps encourage a more grey way of thinking, rather than the absolutes of black and white (which Obi-Wan suggested were the way of the Sith, except it's a core value of the Jedi. Meh, whatever.). But then I suppose there's the political ramifications of recreating an Order that was seen publically to be largely responsible for the Clone Wars in the first place, and how people would react to them. Whichever way it goes, it'll be interesting to see.

 

No... Yoda and Kenobi said that "that boy is our only hope", to which was added, "there is another" They were referring to who could defeat Palpatine and Vader and pave the way for others to follow, not that he was the only one, just the only hope.

It also wouldn't be the first time a Jedi was wrong...

 

I always thought it made sense to have more jedi survive but I think word of god says only Yoda and Kenobi by ANH

Order 66 most likely wiped out just about every Jedi Master outside of Kenobi and Yoda (sidenote, I've gotten into the Clone Wars TV show lately and it made watching the Order 66 scene hit a lot harder, I almost shed a tear at Master Plo dying, and Ki-Adi-Mundi's death was just brutal). The Jedi were being used as generals, and well that meant they would be near clone troopers.

Survivors were ones who had to have been away from clones and the temple, or been lucky enough to escape the clones before they killed them (like Kenobi). A lot of survivors may have been padawans like Kanan who were like I said, lucky. They would've had to have done everything in their power to fly under the radar (such as locking away their lightsaber, the one thing every person knew Jedi had). Highly recognizable jedi such as Yoda and Kenobi would've had to have hidden on backwaters like Dagobah and Tatooine.

 

Rebels does show us at least a few Jedi survived Order 66. What Obi Wan and Yoda likely mean is there is only one hope strong enough in the force to defeat the emperor, and that's the chosen one's offspring.

With the emperor's death, the balance of the force is restored and more force sensitives are born by the will of the force. So without anyone to guide them, especially if Luke is in exhile, there would be many force sensitive children going dark and causing an in balance again...which is why the force did allow some to survive order 66 and become jedi masters to teach a new generation. At least I'd like to hope more then a handful jedi survive and continue on to guide and teach force sensitive's they encounter.

 

The force did everything it could but many jedi were killed after Order 66, one of the first acts of the new Empire was to hunt down as many Jedi as possible. Like I said Obi-Wan and Yoda survived because they went to two completely desolate planets. They had to have been the only two high profile Jedi to survive, even just the members of the Jedi council were almost all wiped out during order 66 itself. The first priority for hunting afterwards would've been Jedi masters.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, maybe more Jedi survived then I'm giving credit for outside of a slim handful of Knights and Padawans plus the big two of Yoda and Obi-Wan

 

I always viewed the Force to be more natural, and far less sentient, than you are making it out to be... saying that more force-sensitive children could be born after Palpatine died would in some way suggest that he was, "using up" the available force in some way... I would think a more natural path would be that force-sensitive children were born, they were just hunted down and killed.

Also, saying "the force did allow some to survive" is kind of puzzling. For the force to allow someone to survive protocol 66 so they could teach the new generation is a huge statement... first, it means that the force knew about protocol 66 and allowed it to happen. Second, it means that it also was aware of future events, and selected individual Jedi to survive... that's a god-like sentience, not an energy field created by all living things which surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together.

I would certainly hope that other Jedi survived, and certainly scattered throughout the universe, there must be other force-sensitive organizations that are not Jedi or Sith... but the force (in my understanding of it) would no more allow someone to survive an event than it would allow someone to cross a road, or have lunch...

Certainly some survived... much is made about Vader hunting them down, so if only a few scattered survived protocol 66, that wouldn't have been such a huge deal. Then it would come down to how fast and far they ran, and how good they were at remaining hidden. Yoda had a good hiding spot, in that there were most likely few visitors to Dagobah. Kenobi at least had some human (or alien) contact, and could go into town for supplies where he might get noticed. And while Yoda was a great master, Kenobi was not necessarily the most powerful of Jedi, so if he could survive in the outer rim, I would have to assume other could...

 

i must have watched a different version lol

Yoda: "when gone am I, the last of the Jedi, will you be. Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke. There is... another... Sky... walker." (exit yoda)
then kenobi spills the beans outside yoda's hut.

but yes.. would not be the first time that a jedi was wrong - or not truthful (from a normal persons point of view)

 

I think you just watched a different scene

 

This must be one of those living force vs unifying force disagreements. I've always saw the force as a living secular power that is self serving and pushes the destiny of it's force sensitives to achieve it's own balance. Kind of a dick, like the god of the old testament. But he's god so you have to obey and love him.

So yes, I believe the force knew about protocol 66 and did allow it to happen. I also believe it put events in place so there would be survivors. The force achieves balance by championing the little guy. See the destruction of the Sith at Russan, the resurrection of the rule of two Sith, Palpatine's extermination of the jedi order, and the chosen one's redemption. All these events unfolded to bring back balance.

 

Not the scene I was thinking of... and you are right. Caveat is that there could have been others that Yoda did not know about...

Yeah, I'm a unifying force kinda guy... I don't think electricity is cognitively aware either

 

I don't think the force wanted Order 66 to happen. I'm of the theory that the Sith aren't simply dark side users, they actively manipulate the force against its will. Jedi let the force flow through them, whereas Sith seek to bend the force to their will. Even if it isn't canon anymore to my knowledge Plo Koon would use Sith lightening, as Vergere said the force isn't good or bad it's the will of the user that matters. The corruption of the dark side isn't some insidious entity, it's the power the force brings you and how you could become like a god if you exert total control over it instead of seeking to work with it like those weak Jedi.

"You mean it controls my actions?

"Yes, but it also obeys your commands"

 

B-B-B-But @DEKKA129 .....W-W-W-WAIT!!!
All of that.. just makes.... too much sense!

 

I'm telling you... commando Jedi... they are back, and they are pissed