The truth about Snoke (Attention: TLJ Spoilers)

I couldn't help but feel that it didn't make sense for Snoke to personally participate in thr battles rather than commanding the First Order from afar through holograms. This is yet another clue that it wasn't really him.

 

Come on, people - do you really want to be so disappointed when in Ep. IX Snoke will be still dead and there will be no sign of any Plagueis? Just Kylo and his demise or redemption? Because that's what's going to happen when you stop believing in all that "it was not real Snoke" nonsense...

In sequel trilogy Snoke was not going to be a real, main villain. His only purpose was to introduce Kylo as main villain - and nothing more. It's time to accept it.

 

It would be surprising if that really was the last of Snoke.

I mean does anyone really think we won't see Phasma again?

Thing is that it could be anything but in terms of pure plot the things that make the most sense are that Snoke is either Sidious or Plagueis because other than that how does he tie into Episodes I through VI?

If IX is about tying the 9 episode saga together then Snoke's part only makes sense if he is somehow tied into them which means he is either Sidious or Plagueis.

Anything else doesn't tie him into the first 2/3's of the saga.

If Snoke is "just this guy you know..." then it undercuts the entire story but if he is either of them then his backstory makes sense.

 

No we don't want to be disappointed that's why we hope for a plot resolution that will somehow redeem the mess that they've made with the story of the sequels so far.
Kylo while a great and complex character is in no way qualified to fill the role of the main antagonist, and Hux is even more of a joke. Do you honestly believe a character that was defeated by the protagonist on their first encounter without any kind of training or experience can represent any kind of threat? As I said in another thread he as likely to destroy the first order in a fit of rage than destroying the resistance.
Imagine if Luke had defeated Vader on ep IV and the emperor was now dead? How would you move the story forward?

 

I really want to believe this theory that Snoke is still alive somehow. I mean Serkis' performance as Snoke was outstanding, and the way he was portrayed with all his power and hubris makes it feel like such a shame that he has suddenly reached his untimely end when we only just got to see his true potential as the big villain.

Regardless, after watching TLJ the second time I really think Snoke may be dead sadly. Purely based on the fact that if Snoke was projecting himself all this time, then how come his body was sliced in half, whereas Luke's wasn't when Kylo attacked him?

 

C'mon fellers, he's deader than a doornail. We see him in literal pieces. His hands are still clutching his throne. We see his face even paler than usual as it cuts to his severed body on the ground, and his tongue hanging out. The same doesn't happen to Luke's force projection. He's dead. A central theme to this film is that nobody is infallible, nobody is immortal, and nobody's name or wealth puts them on a higher plain than anyone else. Not even the powerful Snoke. That was the gag: he's acting powerfully, talking powerfully, and slice. He's cut in half. It was surely incredibly ballsy to off him like that. But yeah......he dead.

 

And why you assume there has to be a powerful Snoke-like villain in Ep IX? I care more about good story than having a PC-game like "unnaturally powerful boss" at the end. Have you ever played Mass Effect games? I loved the ending of the third one and hated of the first and second ones. They became ruined by stupid "end-game bosses". In first game the main antagonist just kills himself at the end - with a bullet to the head. And it was perfect! But no - few minutes later his body became an overpowered robot which of course had to be defeated. So lame writing. In second game the antagonists were building a huge human like robot. In last mission all you had to do was to shoot four weakspots so it could fall down and be destroyed. And that was ok! I would be totally satisfied with that ending. But no - we had to experience another "ridiculously overpowered boss fight" when that robot awoke and started shooting. So boring, predictable and stupid! And in the third game there was no boss, just a climatic ending which was maybe not perfect, but still very good when it comes to the storytelling.

So - what I'm saying is that we don't need Snoke. We don't need Plagueis. As long as they give us a good Kylo - Rey story I'll be perfectly satisfied. That's why I completely dont get why so many people so desperately want Snoke to be more than he apparently was. I think it's caused by years of bad writing of movies and games - where the more-awesome-overpowered villain is - the better. In The Return of the King Peter Jackson originally planed having Aragorn fight Sauron himself in the battle of the Black Gate. Fortunately he changed his mind and changed Sauron to battle troll. But I imagine that for many viewers the version with Sauron would be "more awesome" and "more badass". Stupid, unnecessary, lame, worse - that's how I would call it.

I'm absolutely ok with deceased Snoke. I of course would like to know more about him and his background and I think Rian wasted the opportunity to do it, but I'm still satisfied because it is indeed a suprising twist that almost no one anticipated. Clever.

 

ok so the clues are there, just beneath the surface in TLJ there is certain information we are given which makes this naturally all fit together. plus EP 9 would not up the stakes or be particularly exciting if it's just Rey vs Ben. Kylo is not a vilian by any strech and Rey still wants to turn him back. so the story has to go in a direction where this can be allowed to happen.

personally i think the whole Throne Room set is a blatant visual clue that Snoke was unreal, an illusion. the fact there were going to be curtains like a theatre only cements this further.

so what are the stakes? presumably dark side dominance over the entire galaxy, this has to be where it's heading. maybe immortality for our vilian if it plays out like that. some type of god like force power. people seem to be unclear of Snoke's motivations, while we don't know explicitly we know he absolutely wants to take down Skywalker. he turns Ben to the dark side, there's a light side reaction (Rey) which pulls out Skywalker and now he's 'gone'. and Ben is fully Sith trained, having killed his own master. i expect Ep 9 the battle between the resistance/FO will continue but it will become obvious Snoke (Plagueis) is going to come for Rey, as the last seed of the Jedi, now Luke is out of the way. Snoke probably needs to kill both of them or maybe needs a new body while he's at it. some type of power to be gained that will fully heal him in physical form, or something more biblical involving the force. maybe Rey/Ben have some type of conflict earlier, Ben could also kill Leia, so he starts super bad, but by the end Kylo will have to choose to leave the FO and help Rey and one or both of them may end up being sacrifced/join with the force. Luke will be helping via force ghost to help take Rey's powers to the next level, as she will need it

in TLJ Luke had nothing to say about Snoke, the source of Ben turning (it was from the womb, remember), most powerful dark side user, which tells me it's all being deliberately witheld for a later reveal. the shots of the body were funny too, like they were showing you really really clearly that Snoke was 'dead'. take it at face value if you wish, but i certainly don't.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2017 ---

you're killing me man! we absolutely need Plagueis! it's go big or go home. and it looks like it's still very possible. maybe they're still writing it right now, so who knows, could go either way.

 

Because that is what star wars has always been about, it is a vast universe and you can tell whatever story you want but the main premise is there a conflict between two sides and powerful force users are the main threat in this conflict. Why do you think Snoke is so desperate to find and destroy Luke? Because he is the main threat to his power.

Darth Vader: Don’t be too proud of this technological terror you’ve constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: [nods] Mm. To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is the reason why your sister remains safely anonymous.

Emperor Palpatine: There is a great disturbance in the Force.
Vader: I have felt it.
Palpatine: We have a new enemy. The young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.
Vader: How is that possible?
Palpatine: Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us.
Vader: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.
Palpatine: The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi.
Vader: If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally.
Palpatine: [intrigued] Yes... He would be a great asset. Can it be done?
Vader: He will join us or die, master.

 

the projector decides what is seen by others and/or interacts with surroundings.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2017 ---

honestly the fact the Snoke death felt so abrupt and 'off', especially after some of the powers/awareness he seems to possess and we're also introduced to force projection in the movie, it seems pretty obvious to me. if you think big picture everything is going according plan, especially if you're looking to wipe out the Jedi.

 

This actually makes a lot of sense. A lot of other theories do as well though but I like this the best.

I have always thought Snoke is Plagueis. Once again last my beliefs were strengthened when Snoke was saying something and they played that same exact drone sounding choir sound in the background when Palpatine was telling Anakin the story.

They did this in the FTA as well...there is no way this is a coincidence. It’s Snokss theme which means it’s Plagueis.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2017 ---

The whole Snoke dying makes no sense at this point. If true it’s one of the worst movie decisions ever. They build the guy up for years now and then he dies after what maybe 15 minutes screen time total between both movies lol.

I was thinking earlier that maybe when Rey is in the dark pit on Luke’s island and sees herself replicated over and over. She snaps her fingers and they all repeat after her. Now this is not a echo. But it’s actually another person doing the same thing she just did. I wonder if this is what Snoke was doing and it’s a way to play it safe since he is so fragile. Somehow though he is powerful enough to create a replicated flesh version of himself maybe?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2017 ---

As I was typing this though and thinking of my previous reply about Snokes Light side being split from him

Holy crap...I wonder if Rey is Snokes light side then? Maybe Snoke knows he needs to find a replacement body and can only do so through a subject person that is fully engulfed in the darkside. Maybe somehow in order to achieve this body transfer he needs both his current state and then a matching subject. Lastly he needs find his light side that split away from him to complete the process

 

don't Ben & Rey already plot to join up against Snoke on their wifi connection? i think Snoke is being underestimated here, if he created that link as he says, you think he wouldn't know what they're saying on it? and leaving a lightsaber just sitting there by his side, something that can obviously be activated by force powers...

 

If Snoke is indeed Plagueis, it's interesting that "Plagueis" trained Sidious to kill him and "Snoke" trained Kylo Ren to kill him.

 

No it's not, dark siders have demonstrated similar abilities plenty of times in both legends and canon.

 

this isn't a force ghost but some type of force projection. luke projects his entire body whereas we only see snoke throw someone around from afar. however given how powerful snoke seems it's no stretch he do the same or more advanced projections.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2017 ---

maybe you need to kill your master to be a full on darksider (as Vader failed the darkside) and 'Snoke' realises this, so makes it possible for him to act it out. full on Dark Ben = more chance to stack the odds against Luke. also fits in with the Plagueis theory, he originally wanted to break away from the rule of two but it didn't go so well for him.

 

I agree with you there, for Snoke to come back, take over and push Kylo back to his former place wouldn't work at all in terms of the narrative.

But if he is not dead, he would most probably not return in that way. For instance he could return to haunt some of the main characters minds and try to control them in some sinister way or something like that, it's just an idea

But what bugs me about his "death" is that it felt pretty much like "Oh hey, that was easy, let's forget him and move on now". and you were like "Wait what? That's it?".

Why create this very interesting character with so much mystery sourrounding him and say that we still havn't seen him in his true form, we don't know much about him yet etc. and then just cut him outnof the story. I just feel that Snoke is still an unfinished page in the story.

If he is indeed dead and gone then maybe Rian will clarify that it in the Blu-ray BTS or something, and if Rian doesn't do that, I think there is a good chance Snoke will make himself known again in some way in EP 9. So I don't think Snoke is irrelevant yet.

 

Maybe Palpatine (or Plagueis if you prefer) and Snoke are two of many avatars of an ancient evil that has been manipulating the galaxy for millenia.