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SPECULATION Vader's conversation with The Emperor in ESB

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Darby, Feb 26, 2015.

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  1. Darby

    Darby Rebel Official

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    Why did he suggest that Luke could be turned to the dark side? That's basically just admitting "I'm thinking about trying to kill you, Master." Sure there have been a lot of secret apprentices with our Sith lords, but this one's kind of hanging right out there in the open. Thoughts?
     
    #1 Darby, Feb 26, 2015
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  2. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    I have to rewatch it again. If I recall correctly, there are subtle differences between the original and the blu-ray release.

    But, winging it, I'd have to say that the discussion revolved around the "Son of Skywalker" being a problem that they needed to be rid of. By suggesting that he be turned somehow, Vader would have been putting it into the mind of the Emperor that he could be useful.

    Vader probably knew full well that the Emperor was keen to replace him with someone more powerful if possible, and knew the Emperor would allow Luke to live so long as the possibility of replacing Vader with him existed. And the Emperor was probably confident that he could take both of them on if it came to it. Thus, Vader was basically "saving" Luke by playing to the Emperor's desire and "buying him time", while also contemplating to himself about using Luke for the same purpose.
     
    #2 John Crichton, Feb 26, 2015
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  3. Darby

    Darby Rebel Official

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    I completely agree. It's like they announced the chess match without actually announcing it. Vader made the first move. It just seems so ballsy.
     
    #3 Darby, Feb 26, 2015
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  4. Marc Camel

    Marc Camel Rebel Official

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    I read somewhere that The Emperor had abandoned the rule of two. In the old EU I know he had many "Hands" like Mara Jade, and Vader had Starkiller. Not to mention the inquisitor in Rebels and all the creepy old guys with funny hats that carried his train. The Emperor kept many force users on the roster, Sith or otherwise, and kept more to a "Rule of One", that being himself. So knowing that, it really wasnt too balsy for Vader to make this suggestion.
     
    #4 Marc Camel, Feb 26, 2015
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  5. Darby

    Darby Rebel Official

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    Agreed. Everyone (Vader, Dooku, Maul, etc.) had an apprentice at some point, but keep in mind this time they were discussing the son of Skywalker. I believe both versions of the scene (original and blu ray) have the Emperor claim that Luke could destroy them and he must be killed. I don't recall Palpatine ever saying that about Ventress, Opress, or the Inquisitor. Vader proposed turning him. Ballsy move.
     
    #5 Darby, Feb 26, 2015
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  6. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    True, but going forward we only should consider that which remains canon. And with that, we only see Vader and one other, which is the Inquisitor.

    None of us are too sure of the relationship of the Inquisitor and the Emperor, or if he even survived into the OT. Could be that the Emperor had already started grooming a new apprentice with the Inquisitor, then Vader at some point killed, excuse me... "defeated" him. The Inquisitor may not even be powerful enough for the Emperor to bother with anyways.

    On a side-note: Isn't the Inquisitor actually taking orders from Vader or something at this point? Is it possible the Emperor doesn't even know about him... well, of course knows about him but let's it go like he doesn't to see what happens, and it's Vader trying to overthrow the Emperor already?
     
    #6 John Crichton, Feb 26, 2015
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  7. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    All fair statements, but remember....the word "apprentice" was never used and "turned" is not synonymous, so Luke could've been turned and just made to serve the Empire. What do you suppose would've happened HAD Luke been turned to the dark side? I see this being the "thread of the week" next week!
     
    #7 Trevor, Feb 26, 2015
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  8. Marc Camel

    Marc Camel Rebel Official

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    True. When Vader said "He could be turned", the Emperor asked him "Can it be done?". I think he knew full well that Vader was planning to overthrow him using Luke, and he also knew that Luke was powerful enough to destroy Vader. Then he could turn Luke himself to take Vader's place. It was a setup. You can see in the Darth Vader #1 comic that the Emperor is really not too pleased with Vader after the destruction of the Death Star. This way he could keep events under his control and have the conflict happen right in front of him. The only thing he did nt count on was Luke being able shut out the Dark Side, where Anakin could not. So his original vision of Luke destroying them was correct, but ultimately, his over confidence was his weakness, and Luke faith in his friends was his strength.
     
    #8 Marc Camel, Feb 26, 2015
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  9. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

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    There are actually 2 versions of new ones....

     
    #9 sbs87, Feb 26, 2015
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  10. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    I'm digging that comparison...good find!
     
    #10 Trevor, Feb 26, 2015
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  11. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Grand Master Galen Marek Jedi General

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    I think Vader humbled the emperor in this clip of turning Luke to the darkside.
     
    #11 Grand Master Galen Marek, Feb 26, 2015
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  12. Darby

    Darby Rebel Official

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    I'm loving this comic. It's got me analyzing Vader and Palpatine's interactions in the OT big time.
     
    #12 Darby, Feb 26, 2015
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  13. Marc Camel

    Marc Camel Rebel Official

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    It's awesome, isn't it?! I'm about to read #2 right now, I just picked it up moments ago. I had to search all around town for it, most places sold out yesterday!
     
    #13 Marc Camel, Feb 26, 2015
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  14. Cole

    Cole Force Sensitive

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    Is Star Wars single-handedly revitalizing the comic book industry right now? Most impressive.
     
    #14 Cole, Feb 27, 2015
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  15. Marc Camel

    Marc Camel Rebel Official

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    they're the first comics I've bought in almost 20 years....
     
    #15 Marc Camel, Feb 27, 2015
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  16. Darby

    Darby Rebel Official

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    Just wait a year or two from now, when all the new/returning/more than casual fans find out that the comics are canon. Marvel's gonna dominate the trade paperback lists. Hope The Walking Dead likes the #5 spot every month.
     
    #16 Darby, Feb 27, 2015
  17. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    Forgive me if I misspeak as I have not read the new canon novels or comics and am just taking this from the canon section of Wookiepedia.

    So, if this is true as far as canon states. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the rule of two would be unnecesarry post RotS having completed Bane's mission to exact revenge on the Jedi.

    The Jedi were no more and now it was time for the Sith to repopulate the galaxy and maintain control. They know longer needed to remain in secret and battle through subterfuge. The sith were in power. It would stand to reason that bolstering their numbers would be the next logical step. By that's just my interpretation.
     
    #17 Rebo, Feb 28, 2015
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  18. ThePurloinedFowl

    ThePurloinedFowl Rebel Commander

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    The translation is as follows:

    Emperor: that was your son that blew up the Death Star. You failed to stop him. I know you are probably thinking about overthrowing me if you turn back toward the light side because of your goody two shoes brat! This is especially true since I have no idea what happened to Yoda,and your telling me all about killing Kenobi did not reassure me. So now you must prove to me you are still on my team by killing your own son, or I'll snap you like a twig.

    Vader: Aw come on, Master, I just met my own kid, who looks just like me, fights with my lightsaber and runs around with my droids! He's just a boy! Master Yoda couldn't beat you. How could you think this old cripple and a padawan could do what Yoda couldn't?! At most, we'd like to slip away quietly, but I would really rather we all hung out together, basking in our own wickedness...

    Emperor: Oh, very well. Maybe you are idiot enough to think that I wouldn't love to have an able-bodied replacement for you that didn't wheeze in my ear all the time. Turn him to the dark side. But no funny business, like turning back into Skywalker and training the rugrat as a Jedi, because I have nothing to hang over your head this time, like resurrecting Padme, poor pathetic creature.

    Vader: He will turn and kill me, or we'll both kill you. Either way, it's game on.
     
    #18 ThePurloinedFowl, Feb 28, 2015
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  19. Marc Camel

    Marc Camel Rebel Official

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    Lmfao!!! Bravo sir, this is friggin hilarious and spot on! I'm saving this, lol.
     
    #19 Marc Camel, Feb 28, 2015
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  20. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Grand Master Galen Marek Jedi General

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    Sounds like a robot chicken moment.
     
    #20 Grand Master Galen Marek, Feb 28, 2015
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