VISUAL DICTIONARY HAS LEAKED!

Untrained Anakin put an entire droid fleet down.

 

Can we move the Anakin v Rey conversation to the Rey thread? This is supposed to be about The Visual Dictionary leak but instead people want to have an off topic debate. Let’s move along...

 

I am still waiting for the "The Art of Star Wars: The Last Jedi"-Leak ...

 

No they don't.

No it's not.

No it doesn't.


Have you ever watched the original trilogy? The viewer was dropped into a small scale adventure that took place within a much larger one that we didn't need to see or have extensively explained. Those films succeeded in almost every one one of the must-haves for a great movie experience. Characters, tension, characters, heart, characters, show-us-don't-tell-us, characters, purpose, characters, motivation, and characters.

Go into TLJ looking for fun, adventure, escapism, charm, and of course....characters. Somewhere along the way, a large portion of fans lost sight of why Star Wars movies were so wonderful. It's not exposition, complicated mythos, cooler/better lightsabers, etc. Leave those things to the novels, comics, shows, etc. They would only dampen the films, and what they're meant to be; Fun, magnetic, gripping adventure...with so much heart.

 

Of course I have seen the OT. Dont even know how mant times. I understand that, and agree.

But PEOPLE were different back then. Thus filming making will be different, as it appeals to a target audience. Star Wars episodes will always sell, but this sense of nostalgic filmmaking is dead.

Save it for the comics, books? Okay. I like that But its 2017. Holywood doesn't.

Shared universes are a thing. Marvel Studios started the movement. Disney bought in, bought into Star Wars, and Star Wars is doing the same thing. An expanded massive on screen, on paper universe. Star Wars is no longer about small scale tales of humanity (symbolically). Mythos are relevant. An expanded universe is relevant. The target audience is the millenial generation, who doesn't care nearly as much about a small scale story when it exists in a massive established universe. They dont have the temperment. They want more. Disney gets this.

Now, with all the mystery of the new film, and new apparent mythos of the force, snoke's role in it, redefining the force, and the new theory on Snoke? TLJ is totally going into the mythos of the expanded universe. We can't just say Star Wars isn't about that to defend a bias, when it clearly is about that in 2017. It DOES mess with the mythos. You cant just disregard light sabers, chosen ones, science fiction mythology and obscure powers. Because that universe that you said we didn't need extensively explained..HAS been explained. Its here.

This is Star Wars now. It isnt small scale pure heartfelt self contained stories in a background bigger universe anymore. Its bigger, explained, expansive, and all of these things that once wasn't necessary to know is now relevant. Hugely relevant. So, yeah, if they are having w special force user, keep it consistent with this not so irrelevant mythology

So it isn't just Star Wars. Filmmaking is VASTLY different than when Star Wars was first concieved; filmmaking is VASTLY different than when the prequels came out.

Star Wars isn't going to be the same, it isn't going to be like it was when it initially came out. As I said, Star Wars is in a transitional phase right now. It is the latest money making tool for Disney because that's how entertainment media works now. It never will be truly as "pure" as it was because that's out of style, and relegated to low budget indie films (which are usually made by legitimately passionate talented filmmakers)

Star Wars is moreso a modern commercial product than it ever has been

 

Kenobi had the high ground.

In all seriousness, GL said at the time that it was something they had to work in, because Anakin is stronger. It was hisniver confidence, arrogance, and anger that lead to his defeat.

But even in that case, Kenobi had years of Jedi training, war experience, fighting a Sith Lord 3 Times, and being taught by Yoda and Qui-Gon.

Exactly.

Well, let’s see - besides the lightsaber skill, she can:

Force-pull.
Jedi mind trick.
Block Kylo’s mind probe.

All without training.

And if she’s just the random child of non-sensitives....THAT is what screws up the established rules in SW.

Kenobi, Mace, any others that have been listed - had YEARS OF TRAINING.

 

Oh yeah ..

 

Sure. But good storytelling has rules.

Therefore it's not that is impossible for Rey to be a Random superpowerfull Force User, but I
agree there must be more than just that if you want a compelling story and even more so if
you want a compelling story that ties to the previous 6 movies.

And I think that the latest statements from JJ about IX, tell us once more that this is indeed the case.
The ST is not only 3 more movies, but it is meant to close - at least for now - the Skywlaker Saga.
Therefore there must be some "logic" that ties it all.

In addition,

Not 100% correct: regardless what he said when the PT came out, George's vision has always been that of a 9 movies, but yes it had a finite end... in IX.
And no matter how much they are following in details Lucas's ideas, we know that they (LF and the directors) are fully aware
of two things: the Hero's Journey offering the basic structure (3 stages = 3 trilogies) and the genaral idea Lucas had about the ST.
In his words, that's what the ST should have been about:
"In Star Wars, there is a very clear line drawn between good and evil.
Eventually you have to face the fact that good and evil aren't that clear-cut
and the real issue is trying to understand the difference."

I think we know enough to say that the "general view" is still the same and GL's words match beautifully
- not by chance - with the JotW's quote.

That leave us with two options.

Rey is related, therefore the Skywalker bloodline is a thing not because you have to be a Skywalker
to be force sensitive or a powerfull force sentive, but because they've choose to close
the Skywalker's Saga (at least for now) with Anakin's grandchildren.
Like it or not, that's a choice that makes sense in a 9 chapters tale named "Skywalker Saga".

Or, she's un-related but she's special - because it's obvious she's not an ordinary force sensitive being - in her own way, which is not that of the Chosen One but another.

In fact, there's one thing we cannot deny anymore: the Chosen One prophecy was fulfilled.
But the VD give us two more elements:
- Anakin did that killing Sidius and dying himself (the death of them both ended the Sith, not only that of Sidius)
- The prophecy never implied the end of the Dark Side. But only of the Sith.

So to me, putting all the pieces together, it's not that we have endless options even if she's unraleted.

There could be another "prophecy"... and somehow Kylo and Rey are the subjects of this "prophecy". Or to say it better another "end game" beside the CO prophecy.
Peerhaps related to the idea of the end of a cycle (and the prophecy was just instrumental
to reach that goal later on)

I said this before: I believe Luke's character in TLJ is inspired by Odin, and more precisely by Odin/Wotan
as it is protrayed in Wagner "Ring" tetralogy. And I said that before Rian Jhonson himself spoke
about Wagner and his Ring opera.
However... let's say there's a kind of Twilight of the Force waiting for our heroes and Kylo and Rey are meant to play a part on it.

It's possible, but... if so and if she's not related, these are 3 more movies, not the 3rd chapter.

Again it's possible. But it's hard to tie - thematically - this kind of end game with the previous movies if she's not related.

Unless... we're going to see not only the end of an era, but that of the Skywalker bloodline as well.
It may be. And a clue may be that Snoke thinks only a Skywalker may end the Jedi.

And sure, there could be this "prophecy number 2", fate, destiny, bigger end game, but she's related nevertheless.

Or... we're still dealing with the very same prophecy but it is still misread.
It is in-Universe.

That's something Pablo hinted.
He said, in-Universe, in that galaxy no one knows for sure if Anakin was the Chosen One.

And one thing I found interesting in Luke's pages, is that sure he has learned many things.
But it also said that this lore is fragmentary.
Thay he found a lot, but for obviuos reasons not everything.
So there could be something he is still missing...

And that may be the correct interpretation of the CO's prophecy.
As said elsewhere, we only know for sure that no one told Luke about the prophecy on screen
(meaning during the OT), we don't know who did that and when.
Or how and when he found out about it.
We don't know if he ever spoke with the Force Ghost again after VI, but it looks like he
didn't after Kylo's betrayal and that before that he thought Ben/Kylo to be the Chosen One.
So it's not that ulikely that Luke never trully understood the prophecy.
It's also a common tool in storytelling.
Prophecies are misread untill the very end.
At least by the characters.

It may be that what he - and the others are missing is the notion that to have balance you have to have Light and Dark, but not Dark users.
And that Light users have just to follow the will of the force. Keeping balance.
But I'll think about this better.
That's enough for now

 

Perhaps Rey’s power isn’t her connection to the Force but rather her connection to Ren? It might be that she doesn’t have some great natural power, on a level with Anakin and co - but that she is connected in a way to Ren that enables her to draw power from him or even use him as a conduit to the Force.

I’m spitballing here and haven’t thought this through at all. But it could go some way to explain how Ren’s arrival on Jakku awakened Rey, how she got into his head and subsequently starting doing some super tricks and then bested him in combat. We also know she remains connected to him, their fates intertwined...

 

I'm unsure of what your point is. At first, you were making very specific demands for future Star Wars films. Demands that I thought would have a very negative effect on the quality of the films, so I addressed that.

Now you're using Hollywood trends as reasoning for.....something. I can't tell exactly what the something is.

I have no interest in Hollywood trends as justification for anything in film, really. The market is over-saturated with by-the-numbers "films" aimed at obtaining trailer views, setting up talking points for the public, and filling seats for opening weekend. What you end up with is packed theaters on those opening weekends, with people watching films that require little to no thought, and that will have little lasting impact. I agree that film making has changed, but that doesn't mean it's changed for the better. There are more films from before the "change" that will stand the test of time, and for good reason.

I never want to see Star Wars become an over-saturated, generic, stale, bloated film franchise like Marvel is creating. Don't get me wrong....some of their entries are very enjoyable (GotG, Winter Soldier), but overall, they're heading down the hole of becoming overly formulaic and by-the-numbers. I don't think Star Wars is there yet.

 

But she says "something inside me has always been there" and then awekened.
So I'd say no. But her ability to draw if not power, notions (how to do things with the force) once she meets Kylo, that is another "special",
unprecedent ability. That's the point to me.

 

I'm not saying she didn't always have the Force. I'm just wondering if her exceptional abilities is down to her connection with Ren rather than being her natural raw state....

In a sense, if they're together making the balance, then it would make sense that her power would be to temper him in some way - and for him to empower her. I dunno...I am speculating all over the place.

 

1. The only rules are the ones that the Story Group and KK choose to follow. Otherwise, this myth will continue to grow and expand AWAY from GL's original vision, which was the story was complete with the end of ROTJ. He ADDED the idea of the Grandkids later.
2. People need to get over Rey. She's awesome because the FORCE IS HER ALY. The Force has stepped in on unprecedented scale due to the threat it faces. I believe, in the end THE FORCE will correct the good vs evil cycle and balance itself, regardless of human intervention. Maybe that's what Luke is trying to accept.

 

Are you saying the eruption of the Force awakening, created stronger connections?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 8, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 8, 2017 ---

Or that is what Luke thinks now and is wrong. The Force doesn’t take away free will. People have to fight for good else evil takes over.

 

Yeah I know... I'm following your imput. And that was the first thing that came out to my mind. I'm speculating all over the place as well.
Sure the "interrogation" it's a truning point.
But then again... I'd say she was able to connect... before whatever happend, happened.
But I'll think about it.

 

1- I quoted something that Lucas said about the ST in the 80es.
Before the PT was done and sure they match with the little we know of TLJ and almost word by word with the Journal of the Whills quote.
I'm sure you may find with an easy search, many quotes from KK or PH saying that they are indeed following Lucas idea.
What did change meanwhile, is that in the 80es Lucas was thinking about Luke's sister (that wasn't Leia) as protagonist. I also said, it doesn't matter how much they are following him, just the genaral idea is important and enough to foresee - or try to foresee - what we are talking about.
2- As said I'm pretty open to Rey Un-related, and to the end not only of the Skywalker saga but of all the Skywalker as well.
And truth to be told, I think you're right: Balance it's up to the Force only. Problem is,
humankind cannot be pawns in a chessboard.
Their destinies cannot be predetermined.
Theyhave to have, free will.
To have free will, you have to have Good and Evil (Light and Dark), so that you may chose.
But in the end, it's the will of the force that manages everything.

 

When I 1st saw this I died, for some reasons, it wouldn't be as funny without that middle one (kylo like : isn't that obvious ?)

Yup that I know. I feel like this whole thing was an argument of "words" rather than "ideas"
I wasn't saying : oh she's a Mary Sue she does everything so easily, she's a jedi
Rather : She learns so fast/already knows so much that by the end of ep7, the random "I watched the movies once" guy might think she's a jedi even if she's not.
Because for the average guy who doesn't know SW in all its details, in their head : blue lightsaber + kicking ass = Jedi (I'm not even sure these guys know about the sith or the tragedy of DP the wise)

 

Random things...

I'd say there's something that doesn't sound as good news for Rey Sky

"Skywalker's first student was to be his sistes Leia. However she ultimately decided
that the best path for her to serve the galaxy left no room for the extended isolation of jedi training.
As Leia concentrated on her new family and senarial politics,
Luke began his travels, largely disappearing from galactic view"

Unless Luke had a one night stand and the next morning the girl felt guilty and disappear... or he asked the girl to do so
I cannot see Rey Sky.
Because it looks like Luke's (and Leia's) idea of the Jedi's life doesn't fit well with that of a family life.

And sure I haven't find a single thing - beside the force bond itself - that may hint to Rey Solo.
That to come true needs a compelling idea only the movie and genius may provide us.

Finally I'm courious to know what you think about another thing.

The VD tells us that Poe and Rey didn't have the chance to be properly introduced one another.
But I think this may be more interesting than it seems at first.

If you've seen TFA you know they don't share a word.
If you haven't, there's not need to give us this info in the VD because no matter how they'll meet in TLJ
it will be obvious.

But that said, if you've seen TFA and you are one of those people who pays attentions to every single ditails, some scenes
of that movie, in retrospect may look weird. That when they put the map together, that
the crowd with Poe among them greeting at the Falcon leaving the base, etc...
It's not a big deal, but they will look weird.

Not to mention the novelization. The most significant result of what the VD says is in fact to erase the scene of their meeting
in the novelization, that was in the script but was cut off from the movie.

Now the best way to avoid these problems - compromising the novelization therefore the canon and at least
the perception of the previous movie for those who pay attention to the small details - would have been
to shoot differently whatever meeting scene we're going to see in TLJ.

I mean it would have been easy to shoot TLJ as if they've met offscreen.
It takes 2 words to do that.

So I'm wondering if somehow this is going to be more important to TLJ's plot that we may think.

Because if you choose to compromise the canon and the perception of the TFA (for those who notice every little details)
I think you have to have a good reason.

I cannot foresee how, why... perhaps it will be because of whatever Poe is going to tell Finn, but it could be literally everything
and it could important, I think.
Also, it's possible that the meeting scene in TFA that was in the script was cut off from the movie, because of that?