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RUMOR Why Colin Trevorrow was allegedly fired.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by BobRoss, Feb 27, 2018.

?

Which approach to IX do you prefer?

  1. Trevorrow's (Luke and Snoke alive)

    30 vote(s)
    53.6%
  2. Johnson's (Luke and Snoke dead)

    26 vote(s)
    46.4%
  1. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    So what? It would have been CT's story in IX, why is it so hard to imagine that he wanted to do something different than RJ? It's not like there are no stories that could be told with Luke and Snoke still alive. I'm sure fans would argue how stupid it would have been to kill off Snoke had RJ decided to let him live. The poll above indicates that the idea of Luke and Snoke surviving VIII doesn't seem outlandish to a seizeable portion of fans. I know that a statistic needs 250+ data points to be considered "significant" but the tendency is getting more and more representative the more people participate in the poll and once again the result is: TLJ is divisie as hell.
     
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  2. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    This isn't an argument whether or not you or others like story choices.

    Would Lucasfilm fundamentally change The Last Jedi simply because the next director can't create a story they like? The answer is no. Filming wrapped for The Last Jedi in July 2016. CT would have come with his changes in the first half of 2017.

    By the time CT makes this request the film is pretty much done. Disney likes RJ's film. There's no way in the world CT would come back an ask for the amount of changes that's in this article. It's ludicrous.

    Also, your poll's questions are poor because it worded in such a way that it presents this tabloid article's version as fact.
     
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  3. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I'm not sure why you're quoting me here. My post isn't inconsistent with what you have reposted on behalf of @LadyMusashi. Maybe you quoted me by accident.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 27, 2018 ---
    Because the trilogy is supposed to be bigger than just one movie (which is something I feel like gets lost whenever the discussion revolves around TLJ and it's dismissal of the set ups in TFA, and the paucity of continuity it provides for EPIX). If I have a 3 part story and the plan was for Leia to play a central role in the 3rd act, but Carrie unfortunately dies but Mark Hammil is still alive, I don't know, call me crazy but maybe we can be agile and flexible and perhaps change the story... but that all assumes the overall story is more important than any one director's vision for one story of a 40 year old franchise. BTW I disagree entirely that Luke's death was necessary for this film (if you're implying that). Perhaps you can make a case for Snoke, but I defy anyone to make the case that Luke HAD to die in order for the theme of failure to be realized.

    While we're on the topic, It puzzles me that Rian's movie is treated like some sort of sacred cow that is beyond reproach. Honestly it seems there is an artificially established constraint, where Rian HAD to tell this particular story, and it could be told in no other way than what he did. It's asserted a lot on this board but it is not a view I share nor one that I think is rooted in tenable logic.

    Could CT have gone a different direction? Sure. JJ is coming back from EPIX and he will obviously have to go another direction because it is canon that Luke dies and Carrie Fisher will not be available for EPIX. But given that this is supposed to be a trilogy, I'm not sure why TLJ is treated as though it's more important than the trilogy (and at times, the franchise). That's just my take.

    ETA: Also, doesn't the SOLO movie stand in testament that if need be, they will make changes to a film? It happens. Not just in SW but in other films. Hell Kevin Spacey was literally purged from "All The Money In the World" in just 6 weeks time. It's not a question of the ability to change things, the ability absolutely exists. It's the will to change them that I'm wondering about.
     
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  4. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    Why is it poor worded? I marked the thread as rumor, I wrote "alleged" in the title to avoid clickbaiting, so what more could I have done to make sure to point out it is a rumor an not a fact? The question I asked in the poll doesn't ask whether people believe the story is true, it asks if people prefer option A or B? How is that misleading?

    As for the writing process of VIII and IX:
    • January 11, 2016 - A collider article surfaces stating that Trevorrow and Johnson are working "closely together"
    • February 1, 2016 - The first draft of the shooting script for The Last Jedi is completed
    • February 11, 2016 - The Last Jedi begins principal photography.
    => Trevorrow and Johnson have already been working closely together BEFORE the shooting script of TLJ was completed and principal photography began. There is more than enough time for CT to object to RJ's ideas since "working closely together" implies that they have already spent quite a bit of time together as of January 11 when the Collider article was pulished. There's a whole month between "working closely together" and the start of principal photography (Btw R1 and SOLO saw massive changes waaaay past this phase). Here's what CT had to say BEFORE the first shooting script was finished:

    “A story must evolve or perish, and Rian and I are working closely together to make sure our stories build off of each other and continue to evolve and take us to new places, and I think that’s what the fans expect and what they want.”
    http://collider.com/star-wars-8-rian-johnson-colin-trevorrow/
     
    #44 BobRoss, Feb 27, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2018
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  5. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    Thanks for typing all that out, but what does have to do with CT wanting changes made a year later and a few months before production wrapped? So CT was okay with Luke dying, Leia surviving, and Snoke dying. The only thing that changed over the next year is Fisher's death.

    There's no way CT told Lucasfilm to change 3 major parts of RJ's film six months after filming wrapped.

    It seems pretty clear. CT couldn't write a story that Disney liked after Fisher died. JJ was able to do it.
     
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  6. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    Which part of Trevorrow writing his script when principal photograhpy on VIII hadn't even started didn't you understand?
     
  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    CT asked for the changes after the script for version 1 of the story had to be tossed aside. Someone posted the timeline already. I'm not sure what your point is, but CT asked for changes for version 2 of his story. For version 1 things were fine. Until Fisher died.

    This post lays it out pretty clearly.
     
    #47 DailyPlunge, Feb 28, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  8. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    That's CosmicBookNews for ya. I'm pretty sure they were the same outlet that pushed the "GUYS ALDEN EHRENREICH IS A TERRIBLE ACTOR" thing right after TLJ's controversies. Regardless of whether or not he can pull off Han Solo, the dude's no pushover - some of the best scenes in Hail, Caesar! are the ones with him in it.

    Also: lol at the fandom trying to make Colin Trevorrow into someone that he isn't (the savior of Star Wars) when a few years ago everyone was petrified of the dude who made Jurassic World (a fairly serviceable sequel that feels a little bit hollow compared to the franchise's original film) handling the Sequel Trilogy's finale (which would have been penned by the esteemed writer of Monster Trucks). That's pathetic.

    I think he's a decent fit for a Star Wars movie a decade or so from now once he has more experience, but I don't think he was in a position to handle what ought to be the definitive conclusion of the main Star Wars series (for now).
     
    #48 Pomojema, Feb 28, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  9. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    But also take into account the information that wasn't available to Mark Hamill. He couldn't have read J.J. script for IX. He doesn't know how much it changed from CT. He said that he was on the same page with CT. He also said that he didn't like what RJ had done to the character when he first read the script, but THEN when he had seen the result it all made sense and he loved it. (the last part is usually ignored).

    But that still doesn't mean that arguments about Luke's portrayal in IX was one of the reasons why CT was fired. We very much like to read our own criticisms into such creative processes.

    Also the earliest sources reported something completely different: namely that CT was authoritarian and that his screenplay was 'low tier' in quality. He didn't want other people to look at it, especially when it concerned dialogue. Now suddenly some random video pops up with a "wish-fullfilment" of CT being fired because he wanted Luke alive etc. It is simply impossible, because he already had the final script to VIII when he started writing IX. When he started writing, Luke's death was already a fait accompli. He was building on what Johnson had done with the characters.
     
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  10. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

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    You guys realize Mark Hamill laughed at the idea that he wasn’t told about his death a few months ago? Just because he’s been critical of the movies doesn’t mean there is a conspiracy. He just doesn’t like the direction of the new films, that’s all.

    Carrie Fischer died, that changed CT’s plans. Then Book of Henry got panned. Put those two together. Ding ding!
     
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  11. The Next Skywalker

    The Next Skywalker Rebel General

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    That's not how the force works.
     
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  12. panki

    panki Rebel Commander

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    I'm speculating here but maybe the truth lies somewhere in between......in the sequel trilogy, originally each of the three directors could focus on one of the OT3 in their movie i.e. Han in Episode 7, Luke in Episode 8, and Leia in Episode 9. So all was well and each director had their outline.

    Then came the tragic passing of Carrie Fisher, leaving Colin Trevorrow without his OT3 character, namely Leia.

    If the intention is to have Leia pass away between episode 8 and 9 or early on in episode 9, that leaves episode 9 without an OT3 character. So the only two options were to re-write the story without Leia or keep Luke alive till episode 9.

    Maybe Colin Trevorrow couldn't come up with a new story without Leia.....on top of this maybe Rian Johnson refused to change his vision and keep Luke alive at the end of episode 8. This could have led to friction and Colin Trevorrow leaving/being asked to leave the project.
     
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  13. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Rebelscum

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    There are always two sides to a story. Plus, none of these pro-Disney arguments contradicts the pro-Trevorrow story presented here. (not that i buy everything in it, but some elements are very plausible)
    Trevorrow could very well have been a pain in the a** because he wanted Luke to survive Ep VIII.

    Besides :
    1. Luke's death was pretty easy to cancel : you just need to reshoot 2 senes. (and, IMHO, it didn't enhance TLJ anyway)
    2. Carrie's passing was a gamechanger : without her, it is very likely CT became more insistent with his demands.
     
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  14. BaranDo91

    BaranDo91 Rebelscum

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    Most interesting. Before I give my take I do think I should divulge my view on Colin Trevorrow. I was fine with him directing Episode Nine. To be fair, I was more into Rian Johnson. And I still think he's a great filmmaker, but I don't think The Last Jedi was that good. Heck, I argue it is one of his weakest/ worst films he has made. But I digress.

    I have not seen Book of Henry, so I won't make any views on that but I thought Jurassic World was okay. It's very much The Force Awakens with Jurassic Park, but I will admit I had a much better time with it especially with that final battle. As for this rumor, I believe there is a silver lining to all of this. Could it have been that Trevorrow was a pain to work with?

    Sure. I can easily see that. For example, James Cameron, one of my favorite directors, is infamous for being such a jerk when on set. Especially, when pushing his cast, crew, and everyone around him. Same with even say, Stanley Kubrick. To be fair, both of them are accomplished, directors. But where I am going is that I agree with Bob in that I could see Colin being insistent. Especially, with having Luke and Snoke survive, as he clearly wanted to have some semblance of consistency and cohesiveness. And with Carrie Fisher sadly no longer with us; I argue that must have made his protests even more so. But Kennedy clearly had faith in Rian Johnson and wanted him gone.

    Which I find funny as apparently Colin Trevorrow knew Kennedy's husband and that's how he got the job. Don't quote me on that. The point is that truthfully I do think Colin's ideas aren't bad. Luke Skywalker dying during his first reappearance is really dickish. Much as I enjoyed that moment scene wise in the movie, to deny such a great character who plenty of people wanted to see only to cut his time short is really disappointing in my view.

    And really, while I am fine with the OT characters dying; I argue this could have been better handled and with more gravitas. Hence, I am honestly curious as to how Abrams will handle Episode Nine. Because the ST from a consistency angle is absolutely a trainwreck in my view and will go down as one of the worst examples of "And then" I have seen.




    Luke's redemption I just didn't buy in the movie. It was too rushed. Had the movie allowed him to survive and say we had that redemption in Episode Nine would have been a lot better. It could have been a lot like (SPOILERS FOR HARRY POTTER) how Snape's death was handled and how all along he was a good person. As for Carrie's death; I could totally see that.

    Even before the divisiveness of The Last Jedi; Episode Nine was in some deep water due to Fisher passing away. And no doubt that threw a big monkeywrench into the equation.
     
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  15. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Rebelscum

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    Two elements bug me in that story :

    _ Snoke's death : "erasing" it from TLJ is a Major change, requiring heavy retooling (much more so than Luke's). I simply don't buy CT advocating for that, and nothing we saw or heard suggest it.

    _ Rey's lineage : CT did go on the record to state "the answer to Rey's origins will be the most satisfying / meaningful possible" (or something like that). I simply fail to see how it matches RJ's vision of "lol, Rey's parents were just dead drunkards".
    To me, it is pretty clear there was a clash on that last subject...
     
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  16. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Attuned

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    It's entirely possible that Colin didn't mean "satisfying" in the way we think, he could've been talking about the scene and the moment itself, not the actual reveal of who it is. It was reported before TLJ came out that JJ and Rian were always on the same page in regards to her parents would be. That seems to be one of the things that was planned very early on and they haven't deviated from it. I find it highly unlikely that Colin thought he'd be able to go rogue and create his own origin story for Rey. If JJ and Rian were on the same page, it's likely he was too.
     
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  17. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    I would be very doubtful that this is true, mainly because by a lot of accounts Trevorrows version of the script had been written months and months before he was fired. So if the differences were that big then I think he would have been made to walk a lot earlier.

    What seems to have got fired is the mixture of all Carie Fisher passing away, Book of Henery been received terribly and all the mess with directors that happened with Rogue One and Han Solo(not to mention the abandoned Fett movie) So Kathreen Kennedy got itchy feet and wanted a safe hand on the wheel going into 9.

    As to what story I prefer, well I may not like the way they handled Luke or Snoke in 8, but they both clearly died, bringing them back now would take some incredible storytelling to make it feel believable, in all likely hood it would just feel like a cheap cop out and backtracking. So while I would have much rather Luke be alive going into 9, and Snoke been made to be more than the pointless Emporer rip off, now that is what they have done I want them to see it through As I want Episode 9 to make more sense than The Last Jedi, not less!
     
  18. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    How do you know the original story was from a "pro-Disney" point of view?

    Just think about it.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 1, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 1, 2018 ---
    Wow, really hit a nerve there. Two dislikes, almost subscription.....
     
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  19. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Rebelscum

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    Easy : that story only listed "Disney"s grudges, and did not present any of CT arguments. So that's definitely not Trevorrow's side of the story.


    nb : by "Disney", i obviously meant LucasFilm and Kathleen Kennedy...
     
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  20. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Who says those are grudges? Perhaps CT wanted to work alone which would mean that the first story is a CT grudge :) The second one could be a Disney grudge.

    Circular argument, projection and wish-thinking. Everyone is projecting everything on a video that is containing information that is verifiably fake.
     
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