SPECULATION Your thoughts on Attack Of The Clones

I know what you mean. There is a growing number of fans who already regard "The Force Awakens" in the same way. Some even harbor the same feelings for the OT movies.

 

Someone brought this up on another SW forum years ago as they talked about how Lucas totally changed the direction/style of the PT after the backlash from TPM.

They never expounded on it but I would be interested to see what exactly he meant about how different Episode 2 & 3 would have been if Episode 1 was received better.

 

"Bad"? Yeah, I'd agree with that assessment. "Worst thing ever made by a human"? That's a pretty tall order. From an objective standpoint- not how much unintentional comedy you get out of it- is AotC really the worst thing ever made by a human? Ever seen "The Room"? "Plan 9 From Outer Space"? Sure, those are classic "Get drunk with friends and have a laugh" movies, but I would still say, from a technical standpoint, AotC is still better than those movies. I don't think it's good for a variety of reasons, but it's not the worst thing made by a human, in my opinion.

We've all seen the Plinkett reviews. And yeah, he raised good points and pointed out problems with the films that I hadn't been able to articulate due to my youth when first watching them. But the Prequels are done. I've read and watched enough material that I liked which incorporates Prequels material, or is set in the Prequel Era, to make my peace with them. They happened (maybe not in exact detail, but still), they introduced elements to the canon that I enjoy, it's been ten years. I can understand not liking the Prequels, I can understand not wanting to watch them anymore, but can we please stop the whole "worst thing EVAR!!!" thing? And not just for the Prequels, but for films in general? I've notice this recent trend that any movie that has any piece of faulty logic, a plot hole that's glossed over, anything, is instantly labelled as the nail in the coffin of cinema. Can we please just drop this stupid "Perfection or utter garbage" false dichotomy we've created?

 

Well, lots of people say Plinkett(or Stoklasa and Evans in real)'s review make several good points, but seriously, does that make his reviews "important in movie review history" or "Even better than Ebert and Siskel"as lots of people praise? Seriously, I think a movie review should be a judgement on a movie's quality, so I think double standard is one of the things reviewers must not do if it is a good review. And many of criticisms he made also apply to OT as well, even though he loves OT as I do. Actually I am surprised that not lots of people pointed his double standard, and that's the reason I like this youtube video:

 

Eh, that video actually misses or glosses over the several of the points of the Plinkett video. For instance, they mention him talking about mindless action by showing action sequences in ESB, but his point about why the final action sequence with the Clones and Droids is lame because of the fact that there are no stakes for the viewer because we are watching two disposable armies fight each other. In contrast in ESB we have Rebels who are desperately outnumbered fighting for their lives and dying in droves while driven back by a far superior foe. The fact that there are cool scenes isn't the issue, but rather that those cool scenes have some actual weight behind them. Additionally, Leia and Han's relationship, while not for everybody doesn't bother most people because they have honest to god chemistry between each other and it doesn't take up large swaths of the films run time.

I'm not trying to say that the OT is entirely above reproach, no film is, but most of the examples used in that youtube rebuttal video don't really hold up. Like I said, I don't agree with all of Plinkett's criticisms, but I would prefer a better put together video if someone is going to try and rebut them.

 

Well, we do have different standards, and I think most of the points in the video worked differently for you with for me(Especially about action sequences). And that video is surely not good enough to point out all problems is his review. But actually I focused on the last 35 seconds of the video, because it is pointing out the double standard in one of the biggest Plinkett's point(lack of practical effect or whatever). And in my point of view that is how the most parts of Plinkett's review works.

 

I'll agree on that one, the practical vs digital effects argument never really mattered to me to much. The only time that I would say that the CGI obviously hurt the performances of the actors in PT was in Obi-Wan's battle with Grievous, since Ewan McGreggor wasn't battling a real human being it definitely hindered what they could do with the battle and ultimately led to a lackluster fight. That problem probably has more to do with Grievous' design more than anything though, hard to see how they could pull that off with practical effects either.

As far as CGI and practical effects go, while I think practical usually works better, that wasn't the bone that I had to pick with the PT, but rather the fact that I never got attached to Anakin Skywalker which in turn led to a weakening of the overall story IMO. I think most people that have issues with the PT have the same core issue whether they realize it or not. Think about how many other franchises have worse effects that fans still love, especially in the television realm. You have Star Trek, X-Files, Doctor Who and so on. The reason fans love those franchises though is because they fell in love with the characters in those franchises. Their love of the characters makes it easy to gloss over plot inconsistencies and poor effects work.

For me the story of the PT works great on paper, but the execution of it, especially in regards to character development is what holds it back. Further driving home this truth is the fact that once I watched The Clone Wars series I was actually able to see the development of the character of Anakin, his heroic and kind side, his brash side and his dark side boiling underneath. TCW actually makes RotS a much more powerful movie for me because now I actually know and care about Anakin, whereas previously, no matter how many times I watched RotS and really wanted to feel more for Anakin I couldn't. What should have been an amazingly tragic moment at the end of the film when Anakin becomes Vader was just a moment where I shrugged and said "well I guess he's Vader now".

I guarantee that if the PT had had characters that people fell in love with and grew attached to that it would be looked at far differently these days and things like the special effects would just be a minor grumble.

 

Ye, I surely agree with that. And that is the reason I can never consider AOTC as a fine movie, even though I like lots of stuffs in the movie, because that is the core thing of the saga. I think I need to check out TCW, if that will make ROTS even better for me.

P.S. The fact I think AOTC is not a fine movie does not mean I like or agree with Plinkett. He just sucks even from the beginning of the review, he called people not agreeing with him fxxking idiots.

 

Talking about the box office. Attack of the clones actually earned over 400 million less than the phantom menace. So yeah, I guess the fans were rather disappointed.

 

The only time I would watch attack of the clones is in a Star wars movie marathon with my buddies. I find that there is no point in watching it as a stand alone film. I always make sure to get completly, and utterly hammered (overexaggerating lol) for the prequals so I can make fun of them, and be sober for the Originals a few hours later. Or I just sleep through episode 2 so I won't be dead by the end of ROTJ. While ROTS actually has some really good moments, attack of the clones has nothing of value, it's just utter garbage for a film, and even worse for a star wars film.

 

The PT did have characters that people fell in love with or grew attached to. You and other fans like you simply do not share their feelings.

 

Some people did, and that's great for them, but far more didn't. I'm happy that fans like you enjoy it, but my point still stands, people always point to this or that as to why they don't like the PT, but what it really boils down to for most that didn't like it is that they didn't care for the characters. I wouldn't say that things like special effects are wholly unimportant, but in general fans of various series tend to forgive a lot on the effects side if they love the characters and are invested in the stories. Look at series like Star Trek that were trapped with low budgets and poor effects in comparison to big budget films like Star Wars, they still have loyal fans because those fans loved the characters. Most Star Trek fans will openly admit that a lot of the effects are kinda cheesy, but they love it anyway because of the characters and the story.

I would wager that if you didn't like the PT, it would have more to do with the characters and stories than things like special effects. You said yourself that you like the characters, good for you my friend, but that only further backs up my point.

 

I think perspective is important when making these claims. I agree it certainly drew in a narrower audience (less mass market, and a segment of fans didn't like it)... there are better Star wars movies than ep 2. However, if you use today's dollars (adjusted for inflation), it made as much as Age of Ultron and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

I guess my point is its easy for detractors to apply too much bias when assessing how the film did in the eyes of others. The numbers imply a large number of people did enjoy it, but not the largest audiences Star wars has drawn in the past. (Ep 4 being the grand daddy of them all, followed by episode 7)

 

Considering the number of Prequel websites in existence, I don't see how you can make the assumption that more people disliked these movies than liked it. Are you going to turn to the media to assume that this is correct? That most "STAR WARS" fans dislike the Prequel Trilogy? Good luck. Most of the media and the Hollywood industry today is controlled by those who first saw the Original Trilogy back in the 1970s and 80s. I can't depend upon their views being correct or dominant.

I don't know how many people liked or disliked either the Prequel Trilogy, the Original Trilogy, "The Force Awakens" or the entire saga. I suspect that no one really does. This is something that cannot be measured.

 

That may be true, my point still stands though, those who didn't like them more than likely didn't because of the characters.

 

As far as CGI and practical effects go, while I think practical usually works better, that wasn't the bone that I had to pick with the PT, but rather the fact that I never got attached to Anakin Skywalker which in turn led to a weakening of the overall story IMO.


I don't agree that practical effects naturally work better. I think it depends upon the scene and what type of special effects are needed. To choose one or the other does not seem logical to me.

As for Anakin . . . I can understand your feelings. One of the reasons I have such major problems with "The Force Awakens" are characters like Rey, Kylo Ren and Poe Dameron, whom I believe were not handled right or poorly written.

 

i didn't like them because i thought they were poorly written, poorly directed, and had a glossy shellacked aesthetic.
i was predisposed to love the characters as an OT fan, so even though i felt there were atrocities committed, the characters really weren't the problem for me personally.

i think a lot of how one feels about the PT depends on their prior experience of the saga, where and when they saw these movies, etc.
because they are sequels, they don't get treated like just any other sci-fi movie; they're subjected to greater scrutiny on all sorts of emotional levels that many of us likely never would or could apply to other films.

 

That was a great movie.

 

The Special Edition of ROTJ being the only available version today is specifically why I can't rank ROTJ ahead of TFA. Perhaps, one day, if we get theatrical versions of ROTJ on the shelf, I'll be able to edit that in my ranking but as of now....TFA is number 3 ahead of ROTJ for me.

This! This is the reason why the Gungans are so offensive (beyond the language). George wanted to go with the nature vs. man-made motif again (because SW is not that original and its a series of motifs so I don't know why we complain about 'originality' - but that's another topic).

But the Ewoks were appropriate in that motif. They used rocks and trees and sticks.
The Gungans miss that motif by a mile - they got ion pikes, ion bombs, ray shields.....did George just forget what the whole motif was about?

 

thank God for Harmy's despecialized edition. i don't know what i would do without it!