Official Finn Episode VIII thread

My point was we don't get mad at them for representing themselves. Period. You read into it that America = White and Non-Whites don't need to be represented. The point was why get mad at Whites for representing themselves in creative projects. That's counter productive to equality, tolerance and judging people by their character rather than their skin color, etc.

A great many White people enjoyed the Cosby show as well as other non-Blacks. Not sure why you bring it up.

Black Panther was a popular and groundbreaking character created in an era of the comics industry saturated with predominantly White characters and creators. He was created by two White creators. His popularity grew over the years in the comic community among Black, White and Non-White fans to the degree you will see people talking about who would win in a fight between Black Panther, Captain America, and Batman, for example. He served his time and the creators put in work with him and wrote him in good stories and sometimes bad ones. This is exactly my point. They took an existing character and the story around him and made him shine and become more popular in pop-culture outside of pop-comic culture communities. They didn't need to for example, take Thor, and black-face Heimdall or Valkyrie which is representative of Norse culture. There were existing black characters within the Marvel Universe they could've used. Heck they could've been creative and had an existing Black Avenger, or future ad hoc Black Avenger in the MCU appear in Thor instead. See what I mean.

Fair enough. If you are coming from the perspective of being a Finn fan primarily, I can respect that.

Out of respect for the OP and Finn discussion. I'm going to move past the representation issue.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2017 ---

Not sure how it would hurt him. It assumes a great deal to think that it would. DJ could die in this episode for all we know. He could be a one-trick pony and only want to participate in one mission for all we know or only appear in one episode for all we know.

Plus, as you pointed out, I think, in your original post or maybe someone in response to you. Finn was expected to be officer material in Before the Awakening. Whether that conveys to TLJ or not is yet to be seen. I disagree with many as to whether it manifested in TFA.

 

I was just speaking on how the show was put together. Yes, the Cosby show was well received across the board. I remember when my English teacher who was white brought up one of the episodes in the classroom. There were great lessons to be taught on that show, and it was funny. Cosby used a black family, but the theme is universal.

There are studies that have proven movies make more money with a black person in it. They make more when you put in two. It's just a fact. Hollywood wants to make money. Hence the reason you have more representation of color. It's not like black people are giddy about the Heimdall character. He's just a doorman.

 

Lol @BrotherRoyVA You should put half this post on the Is Luke Rey's Father thread. You,unintentionally I think, just made a fairly compelling case for Rey to be Luke's daughter by drawing parallels within the narrative. Well done sir! . How it could be possible since Luke obviously does not know her, well I have my own theory..

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2017 ---

Who is cardinal?

 

I can understand this and agree to an extent. But you also have to take into account that the lack of interest that movie creators have had in adapting those 'great' non-white characters, plays a part in why many other characters get racebent in films. Many of these characters are not getting adapted because, let's be honest here, the decision to do so is largely in the hands of people in high positions who are predominantly white. That's not to say those people are racist. It's simply to point out that there probably aren't enough diverse voices in the first place for those characters to get their just do.
As far as your point about racebending Valkyrie and Heimdall, you do realize those characters are aliens in the MCU and not actual Norse gods, right? So their race is really not important to their characters. Not only that, but they're both for all intents and purposes supporting characters in the Marvel Universe. It's not like they racebended Thor or Loki. Might I also add that no one asked for that, the producers of those films made those decisions on their own.

For the record, I wouldn't demand that they racebend any characters. I think most people of color would agree, it's just that we don't have a problem with it because representation for us in these types of films is few and far between.

 

I found a video that explains who he is ( it will be better that way. Because I know my english could be not easy to understand ). I'd like it if DJ was also Cardinal. Great material for an actor like Benicio del toro

 

I really do see what you're getting at and to some extent, I agree with you. However, I don't see the problem with making heimdall black (accept the part where he's actually sif's brother). I don't have a problem with whites representing themselves in creative projects. The problem is when they misrepresent non whites and the world itself. I'll bring up spiderman again. In the old (trash) sam rami movies, peter's entire class was white. This felt ridiculously detached from the reality of a high school set in new york. Peter is from queens, not the hamptons. Homecoming completely shocked me by how authentic peter's environment felt from a perspective of racial diversity. It made the story feel more relatable, as anyone could place themselves within that world. If all of asgard were white people, then you have a very one track feeling world in which only white people can really sink their teeth into. Even in the comics, years ago even, you began to see black women with corn rows appearing around asgard. I don't think its about "black facing" characters so much as its about trying to make the story/world feel believable. I've always hated woody allen movies because the idea of a new york with NO non white people felt utterly ridiculous to me. Star Wars is a prime example of a story that has everlasting appeal across the globe because ANYONE can imagine themselves existing in AGFFA without feeling like they'd be a token or "out of place". When they announced that ep 7 was coming, I was hyped beyond belief. Then when i saw this piece of concept art:



I flipped the eff out because number 1: "i was psyched about star wars returning, but are they actually gonna do this? they're making a black kid be the center jedi? whoa......." number 2: my nephew's "luke skywalker" is gonna be someone who looks like him. This is insane!

Whether introducing new original characters, or modifying existing ones, I can't ever find wrong in making a world racially diverse. This is why Zenadya playing MJ, wasn't a point of contention for me at all. It wasn't even just about her race, but the way the character was portrayed. She was similar to alli sheedy's character in the breakfast club. (i crushed on the pre make over version for years.....I still crush.). The times when it can be frowned upon is situations like the horrible fantastic four movie where johnny storm was black, but his (now adopted) sister was white. I get why they made johnny black, from both not wanting the entire cast to be just white people and making a black character be charismatic seems to fit more with people's modern expectations of how a character would look. If it were up to me, they all would've just remained white. (i would've done a lot of things different as i'm sure very few folks understand what makes a good FF story arc.) In short, as long as a character's race isn't a defining factor of the character, changing a white character into a non white character isn't something i have a problem with. Naturally, the only characters who's race are central, are usually non white characters (sunspot, luke cage, black panther, dani moonstar, sunfire,etc.).

 

Thanks just read about him too. That would actually be awesome tie in from the books and other canon ( finally) plus he could have a real clue to Finn's origins and considering his backstory on Jakku possibly Rey's also....

 

@Trooper212, @Corn Cream, and @Blastaar I responded to you guys in a shared PM.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2017 ---

As I was typing that I had in the back of my mind that the Rey is Luke's daughter faction will probably take this as proof...lol.
However, I would say that the comparisons don't necessarily follow that Rey is Luke's daughter. Sure, from a literary standpoint this would be a good foreshadow of the fact, but from a reasonable standpoint, people have similarities in life all the time. Have you seen the Lincoln and Kennedy comparisons?
I just think it shows the SW creators tend to follow a pattern with their main characters.
I could see the comparison in Anakin too, I just didn't feel like doing three lines each.

 

I took the parallels to speak more to how her role in the Star Wars galaxy would be similar to Luke's not necessarily a DNA tie. I think this dovetails into the argument that Finn's storyline is more original than anyone else's because (at least on the screen) it hasn't been done before.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2017 ---

I can relate to SO much of this post it's crazy. I wish I could rate it "Like" "Great" and "Wise".

 

Good analogy. That pretty much sums up my opinion.

 

Ugh. At this point I want this trilogy to be over just so the "factions" like this can die [figuratively] slowly and painfully as none of their factions were right.

 

The problem is that she isn't playing MJ, she's just playing someone with the initials MJ. Mary Jane Watson is MJ, anything else is just idiotic. Zendaya's MJ was a cheap way to garner internet buzz and the payoff was stupid. Plus I found her character to be incredibly annoying and irritating.

 

No, it's not mine.

 

Yeah, that was my point. Her role is similar to Luke, but I realized when typing it someone would jump on it as proof of something else like her parentage.
I agree about Finn, it does show they broke the pattern with a main character on film, at least. His character in TFA is a testimony to some of the things they said in interviews at that time about switching things up.

 

I'm just waiting for the film to hurry up and come out. I want to see how they handle Finn and to an extent Rose. I also want to see how they "send off" Leia. Other than that, I'm not very excited about it.

 

The value of TFA went down for me since they've marketed Finn as support to other people's problems.

 

I am also interested to see how they handle Luke and if they make any effort to pave the way for Rey and Finn to travel together again or if their stories should continue to be separate. Leia's send off is going to be sad one way or another. I'm also curious to see the genesis of events that leads to Finn and Phasma saying "Ship exploding around us? No problem, let's still get it on"

 

The thing that really bothers me about this new Star Wars trilogy is they marketed the black guy with the light saber. I wasn't expecting much from the first movie, but I did expect some progression within that specific area. Then Boyega comes out saying the Jedi route is not in the cards. Do you realize how some people would feel about that? Who wouldn't be upset if they saw one thing only later it turns out to be something else? I had questions for two years about this movie that are now pointless.

Either this is a sick joke or they actually believe people would be satisfied with a storyline that has Finn helping the Resistance instead of a storyline that's about him and that light saber he was holding in TFA. If Finn isn't going anywhere near the FS storyline then we will have another first. The first person in a Star Wars movie to be on the poster with a light saber, but It's not actually his. And It's the black guy.