Official Finn Episode VIII thread

Finn was a red herring...period. He was never going to be FS, and no matter how we cry foul he's never going to be. The writers DON'T CARE what we thought or what we think. Rey is the "new Luke Skywalker" period. It doesn't matter they "misled" you into thinking Finn was going to be a Jedi, it was always about Rey and it will always be about Rey. As ticked off Finn fans are about it...it just is! Look I know this will tick fans off but the truth is "they don't care!" It doesn't matter that people want Finn to be FS. It doesn't matter they marketed him as FS. It doesn't matter how they made Finn looked, or about his character arc. It's not about Finn...it's about Rey! Did you hear the comments KK made about Rian Johnson writes "fiercely independent" women. Do you honest think Rian didn't already KNOW just who the "hero" of this trilogy was going to be? If he made Finn FS, then it takes away from Rey, and that's not going to happen! I know it sucks, but we're not writing Star Wars.

 

I walked out of the movie theater with tons of questions, but especially about Finn, or Finn and Rey and what was the meaning of their relationship. Both have been either denied or ignored. The other things weren't that high on my list, because I know what role the whites were going to play no matter what. That's another reason why I was so interested in Finn. I'm like you. It's not even out of hate either. I thought I was going to see something different, but Lucas Films idea of different doesn't really look all that difference when it comes to the eye test.

 

What stuff were you expecting in Episode 8 then?

 

Rian Johnson explained where he and acxtor John Boyega wanted to take the newcomer in his next adventure in a galaxy far, far away. He said:

"We were on the same page. We wanted this to be the movie where his character strengthens --- not just by becoming a better-drawn character --- but by literally finding his strength and discovering what he believes in."

Literally finding his strength. What do we think he means here? It's not courage, it's not ethics, he found those in TFA. What "strength" is he finding? What do you all think?

 

I was expecting a continuatuon of his story. Not only what he fights for, but what ability does he have. We are talking about one Stormtrooper out of thousands that broke out of his conditioning. This stormtrooper was not only different than the other cadets, but better. I want to know what makes him so special.

 

I read that sentence to be 2 separate things. He will indeed find his beliefs but here is the actual phrase:

"by literally finding his strength and discovering what he believes in."

If there was meant to be one unified product, don't you think it would read:

"by literally finding his strength to discover what he believes in."

My premise here is that you are substituting the word conviction for belief. If you are substituting the word conviction for strength instead, I don't think they're synonyms.

 

if having Finn being FS is taken away from the god like female ( Rey ) 's character. That character is written pretty weak.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2017 ---

The strengh to fight phasma and the strengh to choose the resistance.

Beside I'm pessismistic today. I'm pretty sure since KK likes " strong and independant women " that Rose will be smarter than Finn and saved him or saved the day of what finn's caused by impulsive actions...

 

What makes him special is he did pretty much like Luke really in ROTJ. Didn't use his weapon when he could've. He had compassion where no one else did. Luke could've killed his father but chose not to. Finn could have went along with the crowd and helped massacre a village but instead is considered a traitor.

 

Mmmm, I guess. I mean Luke chose not to kill his father, but the framing of the scene with Luke and his father was deliberate; Luke was resisting the Dark Side. He had momentarily given in to his anger and aggression (he was even dressed in black) and in that moment was too powerful for Darth Vader. Not killing Vader wasn't just compassion (it was compassion as well, this was his father afterall) but seeing his father's severed arm Luke saw the trap that Vader didn't see when it was presented to him. Luke saw the path that had lured Anakin away and refused to enter it.

There was no trap, cycle, or familial bond staying Finn's hand. It was just pure out-and-out ethics. Finn's decisions was made with all short term and local variables; Luke's decision had implications on who he believed the Jedi were, who he believed he was, and who he believed his father still was (i.e. there's light still in him). Finn didn't know what he wanted to be as a result of his decision, he just knew what he didn't want to be anymore (the FO).

So yes, I agree there was compassion in both, but for far different reasons and motivations. This doesn't negate that compassion was something special about Finn, but I don't know if the comparison here is a strong one. Just too many different factors related to their compassionate act in my opinion.

 

So do we all assume Phasma is saying welcome back to Finn in the latest tv spot? ( Because I think D.J. is also a sleeper for this statement possibly both if theories are proven accurate). I'm interested to see how,long we are led to believe he can walk around the F.O. base considering there is a bounty on his head before being captured ( or sold out by D.J ).

 

Exactly. The motivations are totally different. As you said with Luke. When he looked at his hand and saw the missing hand of his father he knew then where this road would take him, and he refused. Finn was always different from the other stormtroopers. Finn was also top 1%. How come?
Just saying someone has the moral compass to do good is not good enough. Anyone can be broken to do things they may not want. Especially do those things when they have been trained to do it all their lives. Too many questions to give simple answers to. A defection when this was all he knew needs to ask some hard questions. Much harder in my opinion than Rey since we want to go with Finn being ordinary.

 

Very different for Finn. Finn's choice is incredible. Unlike Rey, all he even known was the FO. Rey had a family, knew her family , knew another kind of life , and was waiting for her family to come back.

The FO is all Finn ever knew. He was promised to a brillant carreer in the FO. To make the choice to leave behind the only thing he knew, to make the right choice, is incredibly hard. By doing that, First he risked his life. And he doesn't have friends or family waiting for him. He doesn't have money, etc.

And the fact that once escaped, the FO will hunt him so it was not only leave and be in peace. But go far away from the FO as possible to stay alive.

It's incredibly an hard choice to make, and hard thing to do.

 

It's not really a comparison as much as I'm just saying he had compassion and refused to fight at that time from actually witnessing destruction. A friend dying, a village massacred, Poe captured, Lor San Tekka slashed...it isn't a stretch at all. It was the right timing fro him.

Also I'm not even saying he's on par with Luke just that in an instance things changed his mind. The only other reason Luke quit was not just because of compassion, but seeing Vader and taking a hard look at himself at what he would become.

Why isn't it special for Finn? Because you didn't see his hidden motivations before TFA? His thoughts and how he was acting? Do you think some, young, gung-ho guy who gets into the military and wants to go to war so bad then suddenly realizes, this is real. I don't want no part of this.

We have no idea if other stormtroopers felt the same but I bet there are.

Anyway, Finn didn't have a choice until he did finally make one. Just like Luke did. It came down to a choice. Kill and be like them or don't and become someone selfless.

 

If this is true, then Finn really isn't special in that regard

I think this is a great observation, I would modify it to say "Kill and be like them, or don't and become something else". I don't know that Luke was always selfless and despite how many times people want to give Finn credit for helping Poe escape, he had self-serving motives driving them. What I will say about Finn and Luke is that they did think about MORE than just themselves ultimately; they weren't selfish. But the only character who really embodied selflessness in the ongoing story was Leia. She was completely dedicated to the Rebellion, when materially she had the least to gain and the most to lose.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2017 ---

I think that might be one that's being shown in context. I think it is Phasma talking to Finn after they have been discovered. I think it's interesting how not long ago there was a discussion about whether Finn was insignificant to the FO. If this scene is representative of the actual movie, it's interesting to me that they don't just shoot the interlopers but instead plan an elaborate public execution.

 

According to Hux this never happened. This is the foundation from which the story began. You cannot give a simple answer for something that changed everything. If other stormtroopers defected they damn sure didn't do the damage Finn did, so we are still bac

According to Hux this never happened before. Let's stick here for a minute. Suppose Finn is the one and only. Now what?
Suppose there were others then. They didn't make the impact Finn did, and if so why not pursue that storyline instead of showing some silly nonsense that he switched sides? I don't care about Finn helping the Resistance.
Finn always had choices, and he acted upon them. He did things differently than the other cadets, so he always had a choice. He chose to do exercises his way instead of the way the FO wanted him to do it.

A young guy going into military gung is just young and dumb. They don't know any better. Totally different when you are kidnapped, and brainwashed to do something against your own best judgement.

 

No, I didn't say stormtroopers did it before. I said they may have felt the same. Only difference is they didn't do it, but Finn took that initial step and did it.

 

We also need to remember that he wasn't really kidnapped and "forced to do something against his better judgement". Going by Hux's comments he was raised "from birth" to do these things. That right there tells us that realistically, he would have had no "better judgement" to compare his teachings to. As a matter of fact, what and how he was taught was supposed to be diametrically opposed to the decisions he made. So, it goes back to your original and great point. If he's supposed to be "normal" then we have more questions to answer about his defection than we would if he had the force. Because realistically, no one just wakes up one day and decides to act in diametric opposition to how they were raised "from birth" without any outside influences. I have never heard of that from anyone.

 

So no one has thought for themselves ever? Or raised in a strict home, or even an environmet(I could name some things but will leave off labels) and decided to not think or act that way even though they were raised from birth? Not true. Some people do not react the way others do. Doesn't matter how one is rasied. One can take to the dogma and brainwashing and some do not.

It's not out of character for Finn.

 

This is a GREAT observation. His doctrine would be all he knows. I would allow for the possibility he could still feel uncomfortable with it, but it would still get you back to the question, in the absence of any other teachings, what would cause Finn to resist the indoctrination?