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SPECULATION BAT-SITH CRAZY: Abeloth, Chaos Theory and the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Willybobo, Nov 12, 2014.

  1. Willybobo

    Willybobo BEES!

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    First let's define chaos. According to wikipedia: When the present determines the future, but the approximate present does not approximately determine the future.

    Next, chaos theory: random and unpredictable laws that exist within complex systems.

    “That’s all Greek to me!” Fair enough. Let’s look at the most memorable pop culture reference to it. In Jurassic Park... the mathematician Ian Malcolm (played by the inimitable Jeff Goldblum) specialized in 'Chaos Theory'. He predicted through his theory that the island will quickly proceed to behave in "unpredictable fashion" and that it was "an accident waiting to happen".


    E58BEFA7-0276-4CA2-A930-A5DE8284D76C.jpg


    Now let's apply Chaos Theory to Star Wars, specifically the Chosen One prophecy and the potential villain of the ST.

    Chaos Theory exists within complex systems like weather patterns, where we can use logic, math, and science to understand them, but never truly predict them. The reason being: small differences result in vastly different outcomes. The butterfly effect, so to speak.

    For all intents and purposes, The Force is our complex system. So, what are its easy to understand laws?

    · There must be balance between the light and dark side
    · There can only be two sith at a time
    · Light side jedi can live on as force ghosts after they die
    · Willybobo is always right… from a certain Point of Purchase

    Onto speculation (long setup I know):

    Did Luke actually do more harm than good by turning his father, and removing the Emperor? The prophecy claimed Anakin would bring balance to the Force. How is removing Sith from the equation balancing things? We're light side heavy now.

    There should be ramifications in the ST. The galaxy is already going to be pretty messy post ROTJ: Leia trying to achieve peace, and fold in Empire remnants into her Galactic Republic; Empire factions in-fighting in hopes to become the next Emperor, etc.

    It’s the perfect stage for someone or something who thrives on Chaos… and whose appearance can ultimately be explained by Chaos Theory.

    Drum roll….

    Abeloth, Bringer of Chaos. The “Mother” of The Force. Who is likely none too happy with how Luke/Anakin screwed the pooch on her plans/prophecy.

    I love the parallel between how chaotic Mother Nature is… and how bat-sith insane Mother Sith should be. Both unpredictable and beautiful in their own right.

    It’s also about time a woman reigned supreme. Nothing against Mon Mothma and Leia, but they’re glorified paper pushers/fillibusterers. We need a woman with TRUE FORCE-DRIVEN POWER!

    For my money, Sigourney Weaver would be perfect as an Abeloth type. Wise to the world, and evil as can be. Mommy Fearest.

    Agree? Disagree? Have other thoughts on Chaos Theory, Abeloth, and the ST? Share them.

    P.S. Abeloth: Chaos is a Real Mother
    P.P.S. MILFear

    Thanks for reading. Here’s some eyecandy!

    tumblr_lvyfmldeW81qd96hso1_500.jpg
     
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  2. emphram

    emphram Rebel General

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    However Chaos is an ever shrinking theory. You are correct that when the study of something is in it's infancy, most people tend to overlook small details and look for macro causes, for the purpose of simple organization, yet, with time, trial and error, influencing factors of all magnitude eventually come to light. I have seen it in the agricultural sector, where atomic measurements of certain unlikely elements present in a soil are the difference between a healthy yield and a lacking one, and you wouldn't believe some of the things plants use as nutrients, and only in recent years has this knowledge come to light and been applied. You will find that anything unpredictable simply needs enough iterations before it is totally predictable, perhaps not by a human mind, but by sophisticated software engineered to do so.
     
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  3. Willybobo

    Willybobo BEES!

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    First post nails it. Amazing.

    So, assuming The Force has been around for eons... is it somewhat plausible that someone/thing could in fact predict the ebbs and flows of it, and how it would manifest/chosen one? If so, perhaps they were biding their time. Why come out to shine during the OT when they know the weather will be better during the ST? The better to strike, and take what is rightfully theirs, etc.
     
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  4. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

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    A point or points to consider too is the dialogue & scenes in ANH & TESB.
    More TESB than Star Wars: A New Hope.
    Luke's "visions" of seeing his face in the Vader mask.
    The way Luke's inability to lift the trashed X-Wing out of the bog, then YODA does it & says; "THAT is why you fail." ;)
    Yoda & "Force Ghost Ben"(maybe if it's CGI/FX) may appear in TFA to "coach" Luke in exile.
    The enciting event(massive attack) may chase Luke into hiding & while there he will assess what he did wrong over his entire life.
    Luke can also have "remote viewing" or "see the future" then get scared or feel inadequate. :(
     
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  5. Wayne

    Wayne Rebel Official

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    I get this, Willybobo. I do. But I'm not entirely on board because of how difficult it would be to implement as a story.

    Are you suggesting that after two trilogies--that's six films--some long dormant threat we've never seen before steps forward and says, 'Right, now all that's over with, bow before me! Everything is progressing according to MY plan now'?

    Would that wash with an audience? Wouldn't wash with me....unless there was a twist, such as Yoda is the one who saw it coming and used Luke to clear the slate so he could balance the Force himself from beyond the grave.

    But even that is a bit too far, imho.

    I do think it will turn out Luke did more harm than good, though. Or at least, that's how Luke will see it. (But I've said that before, and have been saying it for a while now....we'll see ;) )
     
  6. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

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    To quote the old Garth Brooks diddy; "The Road To Hell is paved with good intentions." ;)

    TFA could, could have a first act where Leia & the alliance/republic negotiate a "armistice" or truce with the remaining Imperial forces then they get burned or have a sneak attack with the "Acient Fear" Sith weapon. :eek:

    That screenplay plot is feasible but SOOO many sci-fi fans would rag on the direct comparisons to both the old(1970s) & new(2000s) BattleStar Gallaticas JJ & George Lucas will never shake it.
     
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  7. Wayne

    Wayne Rebel Official

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    Yep, FettMan. Agreed.

    I'm holding onto my theories of old: there is an uneasy peace until Boyega steals something from the Imperials (either as part of an elaborate heist or an opportunist impulse) that is central to their plans without knowing how important it is. Boyega's actions will kick-start a wide range of events, including suspicion against the Imperials from the Republic, unauthorised ventures into Republic space by Imperials looking for the stolen 'thing', and a disturbance in the Force (presumably because the 'thing' is a Sith artefact).

    My best guess, the opening of the movie plays like this: a seemingly random Stormtrooper steals something aboard a Star Destroyer and leaves with it. (An escape from a SD echoing EpIV). He is shot down, presumed to be deserting but it is later discovered that he had taken something important and a search is called. The Stormtrooper is Boyega, who stole the something for the Sith Artefact Collector in exchange for cash. Boyega has no idea what he has....until Montross identifies it for him and he decides it's too dangerous to hand over to a mere enthusiast. It should be in the hands of an authority, such as a Jedi. So begins the search for Luke. Meanwhile, diplomatic stability is breaking down. The Imperials need to search for Boyega but can't because he's now in Republic Space. What's more, the Republic is being accused of having stolen the artefact themselves because--wait for it--the Star Destroyer Boyega stole it from was being marshalled through a restricted area of Republic Space by none other than Han Solo, one-time enemy of the Empire and Lover/Husband of the current Chancellor of the Republic, Leia. The Imperials want to take Han into custody, but Leia is able to persuade them to hold fast on that....while she approaches the Hutts for help...and....and....I'm getting carried away now, time to stop.... ;)
     
  8. Willybobo

    Willybobo BEES!

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    Thanks guys. But this thread needs more Goldblum love.

    Chaos Chest Bump!

    image.jpg

    If I reach 1000 views,
    you get a bearded Jeff!
     
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  9. Wayne

    Wayne Rebel Official

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    Yeah, you're right Willyboo. You wanted to talk about chaos and the reliability of prophecy within a chaotic system, didn't you. Bet you never imagined we'd get so far off topic....

    ....oh, the irony.

    The slap-down exchange between Luke and Palpatine in EpVI serves, I think: "Your overconfidence is your weakness." / "Your faith in your friends is yours." Point: neither were actually trusting the Force, and you can't affectively predict anything unless you do that because unless you do that your own agendas and preferences will ALWAYS get in the way.

    I've held back on making too big a deal about this until now (for fear of offending, or whatever), but it sounds to me like Luke's exile is his '40 days in the wilderness'. In the Biblical account of Jesus' 40 days, Jesus is subjected to three tests (or temptations) with rewards that Jesus has already actually turned down: adulation of the people (the hero's medal ceremony), opportunity for political clout (galactic hero) and in EpVII, I believe we will see Luke struggle with the third temptation: favour among the Angels. Luke will NOT want to believe he is special, he is too humble -- but that will be his saving grace, because he will resist the temptation to put anything ahead of the Will (Whill) of the Force. Luke's vision will be absolutely free of Ego (ok, let's throw in Freud, why not) and therefore the only vision of clarity and reliability. It's just that it will take Luke time to recognize that his vision is clear, because he will first have to accept (to himself) that HE doesn't actually matter at all. This is a central lesson in most spiritual disciplines.

    So, yes chaos is a complex system but it is vantage and expectation that renders it so (as quantum theory, and in paricular M theory) is beginning to illustrate. Remove the vantage and expectation, the Ego and the agenda, the fear and the longing, and you see it isn't that complex or chaotic at all. Remove all those things, and you are left with the Force and are truly a Jedi.

    Remember to eat your vegetables, people. x
     
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  10. Willybobo

    Willybobo BEES!

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    Thanks for Sith-slapping this baby back on the rails. Onto your comment:

    So did Luke fully trust the Force in ROTJ? If not, then he hasn't ever been a true jedi per your definition of setting one's own agenda aside.

    Nice. Love how the realization of this forces him into hiding and getting out of the way.

    Also, I love any and all parallels to theology... So keep'em coming. I recall stating that Luke has only been tempted twice thus far (not counting Dagobah as that was magical realism, and not fully real) by Vader in ESB and Palps in ROTJ. He is due a final temptation.
     
  11. Wayne

    Wayne Rebel Official

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    Luke definitely had an agenda, he just got lucky. He went against Yoda's directives and set out to free his father rather than kill him: "I sense good in him". Luke was about as far from being agenda-free as he could get, but whether he was still inadvertently following the Will of the Force or not remains to be seen.

    Agree Luke is due a final temptation, and I think it will be his resisting of the third temptation that will 'Awaken' the Force.

    Great reading, stating temptation from Vader and Palpatine. Difficult to predict from where the third temptation will come, it is; but I think Luke may tempt himself....
     
  12. Willybobo

    Willybobo BEES!

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    Or a role reversal from the OT with an overzealous son/nephew begging Luke to join him in a bid for power/justice that's morally ambiguous.

    Slightly offtopic: Maybe Luke went into hiding not to protect everyone from his power, but to avoid a certain conflict he has foreseen. (Cut to Yoda/Obi/Anakin force ghost triumvirate with a cryptic message alluding to 'the evil you must face... is a Skywalker'... But which one? Nephew/niece/sister/lost Skywalker/himself) So Luke hides and goes nuts from these nasty thoughts. The galaxy is also in turmoil with The Galactic Republic now seemingly as corrupt as it once was... Leading Luke to question everything... Maybe he made the wrong move... Maybe his dad wasn't so wrong... Maybe Leia is becoming another Palpatine...

    Also, because you guys have made this a thread that keeps giving, I present Mother Abeloth with Jedi Jeff.

    image.jpg
     
    #12 Willybobo, Nov 13, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2014
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  13. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

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    Why is every 3rd member on this forum thinking Leia will be evil? (pwned)
    What did Leia ever say or do in the OT to create such scorn or animosity?
    If anything, I think Leia may pull a Jar-Jar & either unintentional acts or her "faith" in someone(child/mentor/relative) will turn around and hurt her(or be a major screw up).
    The story leaks already say she's trying hard to conceal her connection to Luke/Vader/Skywalkers so that pressure & her powerful political position may cause her to make poor decisions.

    I'm strongly in the camp of Leia being a hero/heroine of the 3 films(if she isn't waxed in some Shakespeare type scene). (dad)
     
  14. Willybobo

    Willybobo BEES!

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    Because I have the script and want to see the movie described wherein at least one of our heroes changes... for the worse?

    I also think you're forgetting one of the tenets of Chaos Theory:

    · Willybobo is always right… from a certain Point of Purchase

    :)

    I don't want Leia in strictly CSPAN scenes. Zzzzzzzzz. Then again, I'm a fourth member.

    "This is madness!! No. This. Is. Cantina!!"

    Don't put stock in 'the story leaks so far' as nothing has been confirmed, regardless of what so and so's source said. They're all still secondhand claims with zero proof of anything. Fanboys scrambling in the dark.

    I will post detailed impressions of artwork featuring me (I think it's me but it could just be artist's renderings or a sketch from a previous face I made which wound up on the cutting room floor) making a very skeptical face soon. Let's just say it's prequel beautiful.
     
    #14 Willybobo, Nov 13, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2014
  15. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

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    Maybe Leia will throw the whole Senate at em!
    :D
    Robot Chicken joke....
    Quick, true story: in 1997, my friend & I were invited to the production set of Dr Quinn, Medicine Woman.
    We went with this nutcase girl who really sucked the air out the room. :rolleyes:
    My friend wanted to meet the lead actor; Jane Seymore. Seymour's had a PA(production assistant) on the set & used a beat up old station wagon to go around the locations in. When they wanted to go meet her the girl ran off after the station wagon. :rolleyes:
    I told my friend to go with Seymour's PA & she'll take us straight to Jane.
    We met her later and the other girl looked like a stalker & a idiot.
    The incident showed me to use your head, ;) . Follow the SOURCE not what you think might be the right way.
    Some of the "leaks" are a bit lame but a few seem credible because of the time/location/continuity.
    Like Frank Oz being on the London set. He could be visiting OR if he's going in/out over a few days, then he MIGHT be doing a new scene(s) as a Yoda "force ghost". (yoda)
     
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  16. Willybobo

    Willybobo BEES!

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    I prefer being the only source to my fanfaction, thankyouverymuch!

    Also, random aside... Forgot the year (early 90s I think) but I once helped open a Warner Bros. Studio store in Times Square and Jane Seymour came in before the general public. Lovely lady. Sooooo teeny but a class act.
     
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