Casting, Racism, Sexism and Kathleen Kennedy

I know it's gonna generate controversy, but thank you for starting this, @Lock_S_Foils! I think it's a conversation that deserves to be had, negative ratings and all. Cause the issue won't be going away, and people should be able to constructively say what they think.

 

I can't be the only one feeling a little overwhelmed by the focus on female characters lately. It sometimes feels like it's gone from a primarily male-focused series to a primarily-female focused one, rather than a much more balanced one, which I'll admit is disappointing. There has been a similar amount of new male and female characters, however the females are getting overmarketed imo.

Also some of these scenes and retcons are feeling forced. TFA, R1, and Rebels are having scenes where a female kicks butt and the male protagonist stares at them stupidly, impressed. In Lucas' Star Wars properties no one batted an eye when a female character proved combat effective. The only time was in ANH, but that's you wouldn't expect royalty, and/ or someone who presents a pacifist image to the public to be trained in combat. This feels a little backwards to me.

Also female characters are being inserted into locations/ vehicles where we know for a fact there are none. For example, a high-ranking female officer on the Executor doesn't exactly mesh well with what we saw in the films.

I'm all for diversity, I still love this material, however the current approach needs to be refined.

 

It's been two movies. And parts of a TV show. Relax.

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2017, Original Post Date: May 14, 2017 ---

Actual racist casting would be:

only casting PoC as criminals, villains, lazy bums or other stereotypes of their ethnicity.
Casting Jews as greedy money hungry businessmen....

Actual sexist casting would be:

only casting women as homemakers and babymakers. as pure sex objects. (see any Michael Bay film)
only casting men in beefcake roles or as only abusers and rapists. (implying they could only be such)

 

I am relaxed.

What I mean is the marketing sometimes gets a little heavy-handed with the female side. Star Wars has always had strong female characters, this is widely accepted. There is no reason to keep on telling us something we already know.

 

It was always heavy for guys when they were the leads too.
Ripley is heavily in marketing for Alien and Aliens.
She's the lead. Rey and Jyn are the leads.

But they were never leads and often pushed to the side. Or just terrible characters.

 

Well Rancor we have found common ground a Low Opinion of Michael Bay.

I believe Star Wars is progressive and KK actually cares about All Women when we cast someone besides a White British Brunette as the female lead in Star Wars...

I mean fine on Rey and Jyn but we got Clarke when Sana has been set up in comics?

There is really no point in claiming all things are canon if we don't see some of these characters show up on the big screen when appropriate.

 

I understand that, but that's not quite what I meant.

Constantly focussing on the fact that a character is of a certain gender is not combating sexism, you beat sexism by promoting equality. Equality would be focussing on Rey's skills, characteristics, lineage etc. By focussing on the fact that she's female, you're reinforcing the view that a female character cannot be equal to a male character.

Eh, Michael Bay is the worst. His films are just targeted towards horny male teens who crave brainless action.

 

Funny enough I view Colin as similar to Bay.
Although KK will no doubt curb sexism against Rey.
...The Mindless Action though.

 

Are you referring to Jurassic World in particular?

Universal was alot more controlling with that film than Lucasfilm is with Star Wars, and Colin has only worked on smaller projects before then. I think it's too early to claim such a thing.

 

Yes but its not like Colin has much of a record to look at.
JW is still a sequel to a beloved Franchise and thus the more apt comparison.

I don't really watch much Indie period.

 

Mesa called Jar Jar Binks

 

Yousa post bombad.

Dellow felegates, thisa sequel thread.

 

Dare I begin discussion on the Mary Sue question for Rey, or is this not the topic for that? I don't want to derail things. What say you, @Lock_S_Foils? Am I in the clear?

 

You can. You'd be wrong but you can.

 

While I am very happy that we are getting more female leads, I do have to say that it really will start bothering me alot if all of a sudden these all powerful Disney Princesses start appearing to humiliate the men. Leia was a strong lead just as Padme was but Lucas did not make them Mary Sues.

 

But Ripley was not a Mary Sue type character. She was a strong lead but she was a tragic character that often needed the help from others because she couldn't do everything. Jyn wasn't a Mary Sue but Rey really was.

 

Great. Here goes nothing.

I've seen people say Rey is a Mary Sue. I've seen people say Rey is not a Mary Sue. I've heard people say - Daisy Ridley among them - that the Mary Sue moniker is a sexist thing by its very nature. But there's one thing I've not yet heard, which I think could be helpful in the discussion: Rey is a Mary Sue, and if you like her character, then her being a Mary Sue is okay.

Personally for a minute, I believe Rey is a Mary Sue right now, from what we saw in TFA, and that all the abilities and skills she has diminish her ability to grow as a character moving forward. But that could change, or she could turn to the Dark Side. Who knows. We'll see. But yes, based solely on what we saw in The Force Awakens, I think Rey is a Mary Sue character. Why she comes across as one to some people has been discussed to death: she learned the Force really quickly, beat an admittedly-damaged Kylo in a lightsaber fight, knows how to speak Wookiee and droid, is a skilled pilot, repeatedly saves the day, comes into an established world and wins the admiration of old characters, and the like. We all get it.

Back to what I was saying above that, though...Is it possible to introduce a third argument, whereby Rey is admitted to be a Mary Sue, but that doesn't have to be a problem? Based on my understanding of what a Mary Sue is, Rey fits most or all of the categories. But people can admit she is one without having to just say, "No she's not" and then point to one minor flaw. And I may just not be looking in the right places, but I haven't really seen reactions like that. I've seen "disagree" ratings when people call her a Mary Sue here on the Cantina, along with the oft-repeated - and fair enough - point that Kylo Ren was emotionally and physically beaten during their fight, Rey learned to fend for herself on Jakku, and Rey might have picked up the mind trick based on Kylo's interrogations. And those work to a point.

But couldn't it also just be that Rey's character has been given a way faster kickstart than, say, Luke or Anakin, and that, rather than denying it, we can just say this is okay or not okay?

EDIT: And for what it's worth, I didn't get a Mary Sue impression from Jyn.

 

Yes I agree. Rey was way overpowered and she seemed to be perfect at everything. I like her alot but I sure hope they tone her down in the next movies.